Comments on: Both Sides of the Windshield http://www.fatcyclist.com/2005/08/26/both-sides-of-the-windshield/ It's like reality TV. Except it's real. And there's no TV. Fri, 04 Mar 2022 03:21:11 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9 hourly 1 By: Good Advice for Drivers and Cyclists « Very Important Stuff http://www.fatcyclist.com/2005/08/26/both-sides-of-the-windshield/comment-page-1/#comment-69901 Good Advice for Drivers and Cyclists « Very Important Stuff Mon, 11 Feb 2008 15:20:16 +0000 http://www.fatcyclist.com/2008/02/09/both-sides-of-the-windshield/#comment-69901 [...] 2008 by Rodney Dunning Now that the fire is out, it’s time to get back to cycling. Fat Cyclist has some excellent advice for drivers and cyclists. Read it. Learn it. Live it. And for the love of all that’s holy, don’t hit me while [...] [...] 2008 by Rodney Dunning Now that the fire is out, it’s time to get back to cycling. Fat Cyclist has some excellent advice for drivers and cyclists. Read it. Learn it. Live it. And for the love of all that’s holy, don’t hit me while [...]

]]> By: Dudley http://www.fatcyclist.com/2005/08/26/both-sides-of-the-windshield/comment-page-1/#comment-69580 Dudley Mon, 11 Feb 2008 05:32:10 +0000 http://www.fatcyclist.com/2008/02/09/both-sides-of-the-windshield/#comment-69580 This article recently appeared in my hometown newspaper. Unfortuantely this is a great area to ride and the easement which allows these rides was intended to be permanent. It is really scary to read the comments after the article. People who wrote in from the view of motor vehicle operator are frightening to me. 'Speeding' bicyclists anger homeowners http://www.azcentral.com/php-bin/clicktrack/email.php/7784932 This article recently appeared in my hometown newspaper. Unfortuantely this is a great area to ride and the easement which allows these rides was intended to be permanent. It is really scary to read the comments after the article. People who wrote in from the view of motor vehicle operator are frightening to me.

‘Speeding’ bicyclists anger homeowners

http://www.azcentral.com/php-bin/clicktrack/email.php/7784932

]]> By: Eddie B http://www.fatcyclist.com/2005/08/26/both-sides-of-the-windshield/comment-page-1/#comment-69514 Eddie B Mon, 11 Feb 2008 03:11:17 +0000 http://www.fatcyclist.com/2008/02/09/both-sides-of-the-windshield/#comment-69514 Fatty, I love your suggestions. However there may be liability issues when waving a motorist around you. A cyclist who negligently waves a driver by and causes an accident may be considered liable. Even though its frustrating for drivers, I typically let them make their own decisions. Becky's behavior is just another example of the lack of respect and decency towards another human being that's become commonplace in today's society. I wish that she was the exception and not the rule but I just don't see it that way. Maybe I'm being cynical but I'm not sure that any amount of discourse or driver's education is going to affect this issue. My theory is that there's no way to change the attitude of drivers like Becky without actually physically putting them on a bike and sending them into traffic with cars cruising by at 45 mph. Frankly thats not going to happen, so its the rider's responsibility to minimize their risk as much as possible. This means that cyclists need to be smart and ride cautiously when that behavior is warranted by the situation. Unfortunately that doesn't mean the most cautious rider will not have a run-in with an angry or irresponsible driver but thats the risk we all take when we ride a bike. Fatty, I love your suggestions. However there may be liability issues when waving a motorist around you. A cyclist who negligently waves a driver by and causes an accident may be considered liable. Even though its frustrating for drivers, I typically let them make their own decisions.

Becky’s behavior is just another example of the lack of respect and decency towards another human being that’s become commonplace in today’s society. I wish that she was the exception and not the rule but I just don’t see it that way. Maybe I’m being cynical but I’m not sure that any amount of discourse or driver’s education is going to affect this issue. My theory is that there’s no way to change the attitude of drivers like Becky without actually physically putting them on a bike and sending them into traffic with cars cruising by at 45 mph.

Frankly thats not going to happen, so its the rider’s responsibility to minimize their risk as much as possible. This means that cyclists need to be smart and ride cautiously when that behavior is warranted by the situation. Unfortunately that doesn’t mean the most cautious rider will not have a run-in with an angry or irresponsible driver but thats the risk we all take when we ride a bike.

]]> By: SusieJ http://www.fatcyclist.com/2005/08/26/both-sides-of-the-windshield/comment-page-1/#comment-69512 SusieJ Mon, 11 Feb 2008 03:08:38 +0000 http://www.fatcyclist.com/2008/02/09/both-sides-of-the-windshield/#comment-69512 I do wish the cyclists who want to ride in the road would learn that they need to obey the rules of the road, meaning: stop on red, don't ride against traffic, stop on red, signal, STOP ON RED, don't stop and then blow the light, don't weave through traffic, and, oh yeah, stop for the stinking red light. Between my house and the train I bike, but between my office and the train I walk through West Philly, and I've been nearly hit three times by idiots blowing lights (including one dipstick who complained I stepped in front of her but wasn't in the crosswalk when she tried to run the red). Thanks for making it harder for the rest of us. I do wish the cyclists who want to ride in the road would learn that they need to obey the rules of the road, meaning: stop on red, don’t ride against traffic, stop on red, signal, STOP ON RED, don’t stop and then blow the light, don’t weave through traffic, and, oh yeah, stop for the stinking red light. Between my house and the train I bike, but between my office and the train I walk through West Philly, and I’ve been nearly hit three times by idiots blowing lights (including one dipstick who complained I stepped in front of her but wasn’t in the crosswalk when she tried to run the red). Thanks for making it harder for the rest of us.

]]> By: bechey http://www.fatcyclist.com/2005/08/26/both-sides-of-the-windshield/comment-page-1/#comment-69340 bechey Sun, 10 Feb 2008 22:10:00 +0000 http://www.fatcyclist.com/2008/02/09/both-sides-of-the-windshield/#comment-69340 My name is Becky - I live in Texas - I'm so embarrassed that someone who shares my name could be such a putz. Good response, tho, Fatty. My name is Becky – I live in Texas – I’m so embarrassed that someone who shares my name could be such a putz. Good response, tho, Fatty.

]]> By: eunicesara http://www.fatcyclist.com/2005/08/26/both-sides-of-the-windshield/comment-page-1/#comment-69230 eunicesara Sun, 10 Feb 2008 18:52:25 +0000 http://www.fatcyclist.com/2008/02/09/both-sides-of-the-windshield/#comment-69230 Another thought, a day late and a dollar short. Where do the SUV drivers's kids ride their bicycles? In the cul de sac? What if y'all had to wear slow moving vehicle triangles on your backs like we farmers and carriage drivers have to have on our "might block traffic" vehicles. What if bicycle riders had to have licenses to ride on public streets, and valid license plates on their bikes. What if you quit wearing black and wore something visible? That would be a change. I haven't seen a pair of bike shorts, bibs or tights in blaze orange - but you won't see many construction workers decked out in dark, invisible colors while they're exposed to traffic. Even on a bicycle you'd tell the pedestrian who wasn't wearing white at night and bright in the day time to dress for safety. Why, then, are bicycle clothes BLACK? I'd love to ride my bicycle to work in decent weather. Twelve miles is a cruise, except for the fact that the shortest route between point A and point B is a U.S. highway; the alternate route being approximately twice the distance because there are no straight connecting roads between here and there other than the two-lane U.S. highway. I just don't want to die on the way to work. So I drive. Live another day. Another thought, a day late and a dollar short. Where do the SUV drivers’s kids ride their bicycles? In the cul de sac?
What if y’all had to wear slow moving vehicle triangles on your backs like we farmers and carriage drivers have to have on our “might block traffic” vehicles. What if bicycle riders had to have licenses to ride on public streets, and valid license plates on their bikes. What if you quit wearing black and wore something visible? That would be a change. I haven’t seen a pair of bike shorts, bibs or tights in blaze orange – but you won’t see many construction workers decked out in dark, invisible colors while they’re exposed to traffic. Even on a bicycle you’d tell the pedestrian who wasn’t wearing white at night and bright in the day time to dress for safety. Why, then, are bicycle clothes BLACK?
I’d love to ride my bicycle to work in decent weather. Twelve miles is a cruise, except for the fact that the shortest route between point A and point B is a U.S. highway; the alternate route being approximately twice the distance because there are no straight connecting roads between here and there other than the two-lane U.S. highway. I just don’t want to die on the way to work. So I drive. Live another day.

]]> By: Dawn http://www.fatcyclist.com/2005/08/26/both-sides-of-the-windshield/comment-page-1/#comment-69208 Dawn Sun, 10 Feb 2008 18:02:53 +0000 http://www.fatcyclist.com/2008/02/09/both-sides-of-the-windshield/#comment-69208 In response to the comment about runners on the road... Running on the sidewalk is actually quite painful and lots of sidewalk running often results in injuries. The concrete is much harder than the asphalt, that's why people run on the road not because they think they're amazing runners. I'll run on a sidewalk if it's a busy road, but in my neighborhood I will run on the side of the road facing traffic. As to biking, I've often pointed out to my non-biking friends what the laws are. They are surprised to discover that it is legal for us to ride 2 abreast (although I don't do that). I think a lot of the animosity from drivers is that they just don't understand why we don't ride on the edge of the road or the sidewalk. Once I explain why we ride the way we do, they become a lot more understanding. Sometimes I really wish I could chase down the teenagers and explain that they can kill me when I'm descending down the canyon and they try to scare me. I honestly don't think it occurs to them that if I wreck at those speeds, that I'm at the least gonna get seriously hurt. In response to the comment about runners on the road…

Running on the sidewalk is actually quite painful and lots of sidewalk running often results in injuries. The concrete is much harder than the asphalt, that’s why people run on the road not because they think they’re amazing runners. I’ll run on a sidewalk if it’s a busy road, but in my neighborhood I will run on the side of the road facing traffic.

As to biking, I’ve often pointed out to my non-biking friends what the laws are. They are surprised to discover that it is legal for us to ride 2 abreast (although I don’t do that). I think a lot of the animosity from drivers is that they just don’t understand why we don’t ride on the edge of the road or the sidewalk. Once I explain why we ride the way we do, they become a lot more understanding.

Sometimes I really wish I could chase down the teenagers and explain that they can kill me when I’m descending down the canyon and they try to scare me. I honestly don’t think it occurs to them that if I wreck at those speeds, that I’m at the least gonna get seriously hurt.

]]> By: Freddy http://www.fatcyclist.com/2005/08/26/both-sides-of-the-windshield/comment-page-1/#comment-69073 Freddy Sun, 10 Feb 2008 14:25:04 +0000 http://www.fatcyclist.com/2008/02/09/both-sides-of-the-windshield/#comment-69073 I can't believe we're still having this conversation... It's a very simple equation. Cars weigh between many hundreds to several thousand pounds. The heaviest bikes weigh 30 pounds. The worst a driver can expect after a collision with a bike is a moderate dent. The worst a cyclist can expect after a collision with a car is a visit to the morgue. As a driver and cyclist, I can say without a doubt that I see more stupid and dangerous behavior on the highway every day than I do on any 5-hour group rides. I've been hit twice due to driver incompetence, and have been rewarded with a trip to the hospital each time. No driver EVER feels in danger for their lives when approaching a cyclist from behind. Therefore, to frame the argument as "can't we all just get along" places an unfair burden upon cyclists. The onus must be upon drivers to avoid running cyclists down. It's inconceivable to me that waiting 30 seconds for a decent spot to pass a cyclist is actually an inconvenience. It really has zero impact on a driver's schedule. Disclaimer: I drive WAY too fast to be safe, myself. I can’t believe we’re still having this conversation…

It’s a very simple equation. Cars weigh between many hundreds to several thousand pounds. The heaviest bikes weigh 30 pounds. The worst a driver can expect after a collision with a bike is a moderate dent. The worst a cyclist can expect after a collision with a car is a visit to the morgue.

As a driver and cyclist, I can say without a doubt that I see more stupid and dangerous behavior on the highway every day than I do on any 5-hour group rides. I’ve been hit twice due to driver incompetence, and have been rewarded with a trip to the hospital each time.

No driver EVER feels in danger for their lives when approaching a cyclist from behind. Therefore, to frame the argument as “can’t we all just get along” places an unfair burden upon cyclists. The onus must be upon drivers to avoid running cyclists down. It’s inconceivable to me that waiting 30 seconds for a decent spot to pass a cyclist is actually an inconvenience. It really has zero impact on a driver’s schedule.

Disclaimer: I drive WAY too fast to be safe, myself.

]]> By: Primal http://www.fatcyclist.com/2005/08/26/both-sides-of-the-windshield/comment-page-1/#comment-68911 Primal Sun, 10 Feb 2008 09:50:35 +0000 http://www.fatcyclist.com/2008/02/09/both-sides-of-the-windshield/#comment-68911 Not sure if I've plugged this before but as this is a road safety anti cyclist comment. Fatty and all your readers… I have personally lost friends to road accidents whilst out cycling. Furthermore my closest friend and training mate was hit by a car while out running. Not only did he spend weeks in ICU and lost a kidney and is now classified as 10% handicapped. As a cyclist in a large city of Brisbane, Australia that has been verbally abused, had projectiles thrown at and had motorist stop and threatened me. There is no doubt in my mind that action has to be taken. Brisbane is a cyclist friendly city with bike paths and lanes but the general motorist do not understand the road rules based around cyclist. Fear not as there is a website you can submit a report on and print it off and use as a written statement to hand into the police. http://www.nutsatthewheel.com Be safe on the roads people, your family want us all to come home. Regards Primal. Not sure if I’ve plugged this before but as this is a road safety anti cyclist comment. Fatty and all your readers… I have personally lost friends to road accidents whilst out cycling. Furthermore my closest friend and training mate was hit by a car while out running. Not only did he spend weeks in ICU and lost a kidney and is now classified as 10% handicapped. As a cyclist in a large city of Brisbane, Australia that has been verbally abused, had projectiles thrown at and had motorist stop and threatened me. There is no doubt in my mind that action has to be taken. Brisbane is a cyclist friendly city with bike paths and lanes but the general motorist do not understand the road rules based around cyclist. Fear not as there is a website you can submit a report on and print it off and use as a written statement to hand into the police. http://www.nutsatthewheel.com Be safe on the roads people, your family want us all to come home. Regards Primal.

]]> By: Big Mike In Oz http://www.fatcyclist.com/2005/08/26/both-sides-of-the-windshield/comment-page-1/#comment-68880 Big Mike In Oz Sun, 10 Feb 2008 09:06:42 +0000 http://www.fatcyclist.com/2008/02/09/both-sides-of-the-windshield/#comment-68880 For approximately 7 hours now I've been responsible for the wellbeing of my 150+ member club. Part of my job as publicity officer is to periodically throw reminders at them about their responsibilities as road using citizens. Then while I was out riding this afternoon I was thinking that I should try and find some of your more insightful posts and reproduce them on my club website (with appropriate APA referencing). We have a Saturday morning group ride that's getting out of control with 100 riders running red lights and using both sides of roundabouts among other things. This exact post is probably a good wake up call for them. For approximately 7 hours now I’ve been responsible for the wellbeing of my 150+ member club. Part of my job as publicity officer is to periodically throw reminders at them about their responsibilities as road using citizens. Then while I was out riding this afternoon I was thinking that I should try and find some of your more insightful posts and reproduce them on my club website (with appropriate APA referencing). We have a Saturday morning group ride that’s getting out of control with 100 riders running red lights and using both sides of roundabouts among other things. This exact post is probably a good wake up call for them.

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