Several Unrelated Items, None of Which Are Symptomatic of Anything at All

12.10.2008 | 12:14 pm

A Note from Fatty: Today’s the last day you can win the Stylus 1030 SW, which is shockproof to 6.6ft, waterproof to 33 ft, crushproof to 220lbs of pressure and freezeproof down to 14 degrees. Jill Homer of Up In Alaska fame is raffling it off as part of Team Fatty. You can win it by donating to the LiveStrong Challenge on Jill’s Fundraising page . Every $5.00 you donate today gets you a raffle ticket toward this camera (as well as a 1GB xD card and carrying case). You might also win an autographed copy of Jill’s new book, Ghost Trails: Journeys Through a Lifetime. Click here to donate.

Another Note from Fatty: Want to win a nice $2000 wheelset?  Of course you do. So donate on my LiveStrong Challenge page; every $5.00 you do earns you another chance at any Dura-Ace wheelset you want. Which rocks. Also, if you’re a member of Team Fatty, every $5.00 you have collected on your own donation page gets you a raffle ticket toward this wheelset, as well as toward the Masi Soulville 10.

Recently, I have noticed several things about myself, none of which are important or substantial. Indeed, I reference them here merely for my own amusement, and not out of anything like a growing sense of alarm or panic.

Also, I see each of these changes as coincidental and unrelated. Which is to say, I do not see them as part of an obvious pattern, nor as clear symptoms of any particular circumstance.

I believe I have made myself clear.

With that said, I hereby present Several unrelated items, none of which are symptomatic of anything. At all.

Peculiar Burning Sensation at Top of Stairs

As you are no doubt aware, I live at very high altitude: more than 4,000 feet, in fact, and I believe that by some mathematical methodologies I am allowed to round up to 5,000. Which is practically a mile. So let’s just say I live at an altitude of 5280 feet and leave it at that. Or, perhaps for simplicity’s sake, we should round my home altitude up to 5300′. Yes, that sounds about right.

Anyway, some of you may also be aware that until recently (June, 2006), I lived in Sammamish, Washington, which is altitude best described as “essentially underwater.”

With that huge altitude difference in mind, it’s no surprise that I am noticing some lightheadedness, shortness of breath, and burning in the legs when I climb a set of stairs here. In fact, I have to be careful, because I don’t want to give myself a high altitude pulmonary edema.

Which is why I have recently started taking the elevator to my fourth-floor office at work.

What’s peculiar is that until recently, I didn’t notice any of these effects. My theory is that sometimes high altitude sickness can take a while (2.5 years, in my case) to manifest itself.

I’m just glad I caught it before it’s too late.

Certain Articles of Clothing Have Become Unattractive to Me

I hate the way cotton shrinks, don’t you? And what’s weird is I have these jeans that are more than two years old. You would think they’d have done any shrinking they’re going to do by now. But no. I must have washed them (along with my other clothes) in extra hot water and then dried them extra double-hot a few times in a row, because these pants have become uncomfortably tight. Sure, if I spend a few minutes hand-stretching them before putting them on they’re OK, but still.

These things are supposed to be loose-fitting. It says so right on the tag. I should complain to the manufacturer. Does anyone have Michael Ball’s email address?

Uncomfortable Sensation When In the Drops

I have never been a big fan of riding in the drops on my road bike. Lately, though, it has occurred to me that riding in the drops is childish. I’m not in a wind tunnel, for crying out loud.

Furthermore, it lately occurs to me that riding in the drops is extremely uncomfortable. Thanks to my very large ribcage and massive lung capacity, it is not uncommon to have my knees mash into my stomach when I ride in the drops.

I am positive this is not a new phenomenon, so it is surprising to me that I am just starting to notice it now. I think this is very likely similar to the way that you don’t notice a shoe is rubbing your heel until you have been running for several miles.

My Cycling Clothing Seems to Be Defective

I really don’t know why I ever liked my size Medium bibshorts. The entire lot of them are ridiculous. I am so glad that, a few years ago when I was overweight, I had the foresight to also purchase some size Large bibshorts. They look much better.

And it’s really starting to bother me the way Twin Six has started mis-sizing all their jerseys. It used to be that a Medium fit me pretty well. Lately though, even their Larges have been tight. Hey Twin Six, quit screwing around with your jersey sizing!

Scales: Not to Be Trusted, Nor Used

Lately, I have decided that the scale is not a valid way of determining my leanness or fitness. Consider: if I were to start an intensive weightlifting program, I would likely lose fat — not that I have much to lose — and gain muscle. What would the scale tell me about this positive change? Merely that I have gained weight!

(Note: I have not actually started a weightlifting program, but this is still a valid hypothetical argument.)

Furthermore, I have noticed — in times past — that when I stop training, I usually lose weight, at least for a little while, perhaps from muscle loss, though I am quite muscular even in the worst of times.

In short, the bathroom scale — which I do not in any way fear — is an unreliable way of measuring my progress (or, hypothetically, regress) as an athlete, and I choose not to see what it says.


  1. Comment by Michael in TN | 12.10.2008 | 12:26 pm

    My wife is pregnant and I seem to be having all the same problems. Weird.
    First place!

  2. Comment by Ian | 12.10.2008 | 12:39 pm

    I feel your pain. I read an article about the importance of rest while training and have been focussing extensively on that phase of my training lately. So far, I have seemingly gained a lot of muscle mass, particularly my abs are getting really big. Oh well, cross country ski season is upon us and I will have to add some movement to my training, an increasingly painfull proposition. Keep well.


  3. Comment by fatty | 12.10.2008 | 12:42 pm

    ian – you are absolutely right. it’s important, after a long training session, to rest and recover thoroughly. you can never know for sure when your recovery is complete, so it’s best to recover for approximately nine weeks. just to be certain. thank you for your comment.

    michael – problems? what problems? i don’t have any problems and don’t know what you’re talking about. thank you for your comment.

  4. Comment by dug | 12.10.2008 | 12:45 pm

    i live at 6,000 feet, and have for 3.5 years, and moved here from 5,000 feet, where i lived for about 17 years, but moved from minneapolis, which is at about the level of wisconsin, whose level i do not know, except to know it’s less than 5,000 feet. i find my altitude problems to be seasonal.

    you must be developing much of your muscle in your arms–seriously, you can “hand stretch” your jeans? i have to put mine in my stretching machine.

  5. Comment by Dobovedo | 12.10.2008 | 12:51 pm

    hahahahaha… awesome post. Well paced build to the punchline. Or maybe I should say “well paced building of the waistline”?

  6. Comment by Al Maviva | 12.10.2008 | 1:02 pm

    It’s pretty clear to me what you are suffering from Elden. Leprosy! Without a doubt!

    The only cure for this is to move the entire family to a sprawling ranch house with beach views on Oahu.
    You’ll find that living in a one-floor building in a place well known for loose-fitting shorts and shirts will eliminate the burning in your legs at the top of the stairs, as well as relieving the uncomfortable tightness of your clothes. Plus they really, really like Spam there, and procrastination is considered a virtue, so these others symptoms that you didn’t mention just now – like an insatiable appetite for canned, cured, salted, ground-up and compressed meat by-products, as well as not really getting anything done – will trouble you no longer.

    Thus you’ll fit in well and find your leprosy cured almost immediately after you move.

    Mahalo, Fatty!

  7. Comment by fatty | 12.10.2008 | 1:09 pm

    al – get out of my head.

  8. Comment by Clydesteve | 12.10.2008 | 1:09 pm

    fatty – I have to take issue with one item in this post. I am not sure which one in particular, and I am too lazy to go back and identify it.

    While the title of the post is probably essentially correct – None of these symptoms (if you want to be a drama-queen, and give them that elevated status) by themselves mean anything at all. But, combined, as a group, I think they do, in fact point to something worrisome.

    I believe your major and minor appliances are in a conspiracy with your bicycle components to induce you in worry needlessly about your sanity. Thankfully, I have seen this exact set of circumstances, and I know how to stop it.

    Just close the doors to your laundry room, garage and master bathroom. The components / appliances, etc. can’t talk very loud. This will put an end to their devious scheming. And, only listen to the refrigerator. It is probably your last remaining appliance that is above reproach.

  9. Comment by Dutch Girlie On a Bike | 12.10.2008 | 1:10 pm

    Hmmmm sounds like someone has been using too much Velveeta in his scrambled eggs lately. :)

  10. Comment by bikemike | 12.10.2008 | 1:12 pm

    one of my ex-service managers was the head mechanic for rock racing last year, he’s not with them anymore.
    he said michael ball was “an interesting guy”.

    i hope that helps.

    i get nose bleed when i climb onto the roof of my house.

    i live in florida where i never have to wear jeans. jeans are the devil’s work.

  11. Comment by Clydesteve | 12.10.2008 | 1:12 pm

    oh, and I almost forgot – Do not park your bicycle anywhere near the stairwell at work.

  12. Comment by Jeff | 12.10.2008 | 1:23 pm

    It’s also strange that you recently had that post about being “the slow guy.” Unrelated, I’m sure.

    There’s a quote trying to come to the forefront of my mind…something about a river in Africa…

  13. Comment by leroy | 12.10.2008 | 1:25 pm

    You only have to worry when you get in to bed and notice the sheets are too tight.

    I save my older, plus size Twin Six jerseys. Some of us happen to be able to pull off the baggy jersey look (notwithstanding any snarky comments by an annymous Brooklyn blogger).

    And you never know how big you will get in the off season.

  14. Comment by Anonymous | 12.10.2008 | 1:28 pm

    ahahahaha! that was really funny. had to stifle my guffaws so my fellow cube farm inhabitants wouldn’t start praire-dogging it to see what is so funny.

  15. Comment by BikeCopVT | 12.10.2008 | 1:29 pm

    I always thought those symptoms were brought on by the shortened daylight hours. Not altitude. Then the symptoms arn’t so limiting. That’s my story and Im sticking to it.

    Win Susan
    Elden Won

  16. Comment by cheapie | 12.10.2008 | 1:29 pm

    crap. anon is me. btw, i have this awful feeling praire-dogging it means something else but my corporate firewall won’t let me go to to find out how badly i screwed up.

  17. Comment by Don | 12.10.2008 | 1:32 pm

    Jeff: In Egypt… but yes…

    Fatty: There is nothing wrong here. Dutch Girlie had it half right… What you need to do is eat MORE Velveeta and Scrambled Eggs! OH! and english muffins! Chase that with chocolate mile, and you have the elixir of the soul!

  18. Comment by graisseux | 12.10.2008 | 1:32 pm

    Strange. Awhile ago I had my suit coat taken in because I had lost some weight. Unfortunately, the tailor must have used some sort of shrinking thread because the coat keeps getting tighter and tighter and I can barely button it up now. I’ll have to specify non-shrinking thread next time I get alterations.

  19. Comment by GenghisKhan | 12.10.2008 | 1:46 pm

    Dobovedo–I’m certain you meant, “Well paced build to the paunchline”, right?

    Fatty–It’s a government conspiracy–ignore it. You are fine, just fine… Though Al may be right about the leprosy…

  20. Comment by Dave in Lehi | 12.10.2008 | 1:50 pm

    Wow, it must be contagious. I was just thinking the exact same things. I believe we might be headed for an epidemic!

  21. Comment by JEB | 12.10.2008 | 1:51 pm

    Actually, it sounds like you did start a weight lifting program. You are even increasing the amount of weight you are lifting over time.

    You could call it the “Fatty Assistance/Resistance Training System.” Or FARTS. (Because I know you like that kind of humor)

  22. Comment by Ka_Jun | 12.10.2008 | 1:56 pm

    I think it must be Spam musubi deprivation. Take two and call me in the morning.

  23. Comment by MikeonhisBike | 12.10.2008 | 1:58 pm

    I agree that these symptoms aren’t related in any way. No way that they could be. I don’t think of a “little” weight gain as a problem. I think of it more like cycling fuel reserves. You’ll need all of it this spring and summer. It’s important to stock up now.


  24. Comment by WheelDancer | 12.10.2008 | 2:03 pm

    I have noticed all these these things as well and also that I seem to be more comfortable in the lower temps that winter is presenting. Here in MN my second floor is one of the highest points in the state so I don’t think I can blame the altitude.

    I have been wondering if it’s related to the economic downturn and my clothes are tightening their own belts but I would prefer to think that all these things are oblique reactions to this focus on getting cancer dropped off the back of Team Fatty.

  25. Comment by Kt | 12.10.2008 | 2:15 pm

    Ah, winter, the dark months when it is necessary to stockpile “rest” and “fuel” for those summer months when training is in full swing.

    And by “training” I mean “riding around aimlessly for an hour or so” and “commuting to work and back”. :)

    Every time the microwave dings, an angel gets its wings.

  26. Comment by mmat | 12.10.2008 | 2:29 pm

    riding in the drops is overrated – heck, you can remove that issue entirely by swapping the drop bars out for a flat bar instead.

    and your theory about the stairs is absolutely correct. I get the altitude sickness when i take the stairs, but am fine when i ride the eleveator. the reason you don’t feel these effects in the elevators is that they’re pressurized (much like an airplane) so as to prevent these types of illess and increase worker productivity. at least, that’s what i heard.

  27. Comment by Cynthia | 12.10.2008 | 2:30 pm

    Scales are an extremely important tool in weight management. I can’t believe a seemingly intelligent person like yourself would negate their importance. How else are we going to know if the diets our vets put our pets on is working?? Geez…

  28. Comment by Eric | 12.10.2008 | 2:32 pm

    I have found that when I go from my house (at approximately 22 feet in altitude) to my riding area (approximately 23 feet in altitude) I suffer from the exact same maladies! Thankfully you are here to properly interpret these things for us. I think we should give aname to this perfidious malady. How about Fatty’s Altitide Training & Barometric Oafitis/Yoke Syndrome.
    FATBOYS, got a nice ring to it don’t it?

  29. Comment by JB | 12.10.2008 | 2:35 pm

    HA! It is an epidemic….of growing concern.

  30. Comment by John | 12.10.2008 | 3:04 pm

    I am having the same problems, but I prefer to think it is caused by my aggressive training to improve my descending.

  31. Comment by Mike Roadie | 12.10.2008 | 3:08 pm

    Ghengis…you are too quick!

    KT…too funny!

    Personally, I don’ think there is anything out of the ordinary going on. I have decided to study the same situation at sea level, and I am seeing the same results. Oh, and I am not getting older, either.

  32. Comment by Al Maviva | 12.10.2008 | 3:08 pm

    Oh, and while I’m thinking about it, you can forget about Michael Ball making jeans that would fit you. If he wont do Kierin Cut Jeans for that hot trackie chick with her hot but vaguely disconcerting linebacker legs*, what makes you think he’ll do special Relaxed Fit Cottage Cheese Cut Pantaloons for you?

    * Vaguely disconcerting because Brian Urlacher’s legs look exactly the same, and I can’t decide whether that makes him hot like a hot athletic chick, or her hot like an all-pro linebacker dude.

    Man, reading that, it makes me realize I need to cut way down on the martinis at lunch.

  33. Comment by Andrea | 12.10.2008 | 3:26 pm

    I’m not sure how it’s possible, since I haven’t ever been anywhere near Utah, but I think what you have might be contagious. Maybe it’s so powerful I can get it just from reading your blog.

  34. Comment by Wildroadie (in Paris) | 12.10.2008 | 3:45 pm

    I’m so with you! Didn’t you know muscle weighs way more than fat and so you must be doing different exercise and building different muscles to the usual ones!

  35. Comment by Bjorn 4Lycra | 12.10.2008 | 3:54 pm

    Fatty’s back!

  36. Comment by stephanie | 12.10.2008 | 3:55 pm

    i can’t remember the full acronym… but it might be a good time to start the B7 challenge going. I’m sure enough of here would be willing to take coordination

  37. Comment by KanyonKris | 12.10.2008 | 3:55 pm

    These aren’t symptoms, just random noise in the normal ebb and flow of the incomprehensibly complex human body. Even doctors who spend years studying the body can’t explain who everything works. No need to worry unless you get a sharp pain that won’t go away or something breaks on your bike just from sitting on it.

    The above is just a fancy way of saying “nah, nah, nah, I can’t hear you!”

  38. Comment by stephanie | 12.10.2008 | 4:02 pm

    wow. i can’t complete coherent sentences… but i’m sure you get the general point.

  39. Comment by aussie kev | 12.10.2008 | 4:10 pm

    i too have a very large ribcage and massive lung capacity


  40. Comment by Clydesteve | 12.10.2008 | 4:41 pm

    people keep talking about epidemics here. as if it is Fatty’s fault.

    This is a PANdemic, people.

  41. Comment by Di | 12.10.2008 | 4:42 pm

    Elden, this is going to sound kind of funny coming from me, cuz you get about one more hour of daylight than I do, but I think you need to sun yourself. :-) You sound like you’re getting the winter whackies.

  42. Comment by Steve | 12.10.2008 | 5:06 pm


    I suspect part of the problem is due to Global Heightening. Here in Seattle I’ve noticed that in addition to the same burning thighs at the tops of stairs, suddenly ALL of the hills have become both steeper and longer. The only possible answer is that the earth is being stretched like a giant ball of silly putty. No other possible explanation if ya ask me.

  43. Comment by Cliff | 12.10.2008 | 5:31 pm

    It’s gotta be lupus. No doubt about it. Or maybe leishmaniasis. And if it isn’t one of those two, melioidosis. You may want to get it checked out by a moody, cranky, acerbic doctor, just to make sure.

    Funny how the conditions you’ve described seem to rear its ugly head in nearly everyone during this holiday season. Forget the flu shot, we need a cure to this, stat!

  44. Comment by Triflefat | 12.10.2008 | 6:13 pm

    I’m sorry people, but it’s time for some tough love here.What’s happening is that you’re all getting fatter.

    It’s harsh, I know, but true.

    However forces greater than you are at work here.
    By an unremarkable coincidence, we bike riders in the Southern Hemisphere are suddenly becoming slimmer.

    How is this so?

    The only logical explanation is that, in your winter, all the ducks and geese migrate south, causing a massive imbalance. The earth mother recognises this and somehow causes a transfer of fat from South to North.

    Come April or May the annual fat oscillation index will reverse and you’ll all become slender and we’ll all become lumpy.

    It’s bigger than all of us; don’t fight against it.

  45. Comment by elise | 12.10.2008 | 6:25 pm

    Chocolate mile? I think that’s in Pennsylvania, isn’t it?

  46. Comment by Kt | 12.10.2008 | 6:48 pm

    I think my problem is the opposite of Al’s: not enough martinis at lunch today.

    I like the global heightening theory, and the global redistribution of weight theory– both explain a lot, but I propose an addition: in northern hemisphere’s winter, the earth tilts away from the sun, stretching, as it were. It doesn’t want to flip over- think of the havoc that would wreak with the airline industry- so fat gets redistributed to keep the balance. Come summer, the opposite occurs- the southern hemisphere stretches and fat once again moves around.

    Don’t ask me how it works, I was never that great at physics. Or would this be metaphysics?

    Here’s another theory: the hills aren’t steeper, your bike weighs more. You know, because of the winter road grime and dead leaves.

  47. Comment by Kathleen | 12.10.2008 | 7:18 pm

    I love this group..I don’t have anything brilliant to add (and if fact am feeling overwhelmed by how wickedly clever you all are) so I’m just gonna say thanks for making me smile.

  48. Comment by Aaron | 12.10.2008 | 7:31 pm

    What a coincidence! I have noticed the same things happening to me. In fact, if I look back through the years, these things always start to happen to me right around Thanksgiving. Weird…..

  49. Comment by Dobovedo | 12.10.2008 | 8:45 pm

    GenghisKhan – Oh, man.. how could I have possibly missed it! hilarious.

  50. Comment by Nick | 12.10.2008 | 9:06 pm

    “Chocolate mile? I think that’s in Pennsylvania, isn’t it?”

    No, that’s what you get when everybody in your office starts prairie dogging. . . (sorry, I had to)

  51. Comment by stuckinmypedals | 12.10.2008 | 9:18 pm

    Andrea’s right. It must be contagious because I’m in California and I’ve got it too. Hope I’m cured before San Jose!

  52. Comment by Jennifer | 12.10.2008 | 9:31 pm

    My jeans are shrinking, too. Even my beloved American-made Diamond gusset jeans, the ones I can wear when I ride my bikes because there’s no seam *there*, even they are shrinking! Can’t even sit at the computer, let alone ride the bike.

    Clearly this is a sign that I need to go shopping.

    (oh, Nick… that was gross, but clever)

  53. Comment by Tim E | 12.10.2008 | 10:48 pm

    Laughed. Laughed hard. Out loud.

    I am very familiar with these unrelated occurrances.
    Thanks to all for much needed joy!

    Fatty rules!

  54. Comment by BotchedExperiment | 12.10.2008 | 10:55 pm

    Last week some jerk re-arranged the holes in my belt. The week before, the third hole worked just fine. Then last week, the third hole was too tight, and the second hole was just right.

    I guess I may have gotten the leather wet…

  55. Comment by Red | 12.11.2008 | 6:06 am

    Damn how I hate the thighs striking stomach when in the drop position.

    Just keep on kiddin’ yourself Fatty. All the products must be defective. Works for me. :)

  56. Comment by Lowrydr | 12.11.2008 | 7:19 am

    You’re not really trying to say that you’re Fat are you? I think you have subconsciously been building an aero-belly for that new recumbent you ordered in your sleep last month.

    Welcome to Fat and Flat on your back riding.

  57. Comment by Mark | 12.11.2008 | 8:21 am

    Really bad luck that all those products have failed at once, at the same time as the altitude sickness setting in.

    Best to avoid that high altitude pulmonary edema, I saw it in a movie one time – naturally your symptoms are not of a mere mountain climber (simply “day trippers”) but of a long-term high altitude explorer, living with only the facilities available to the local natives!

    Possibly the clothes shrinkage you are observing is also due to the high altitude? If it’s affecting your clothes, it could also be shrinking your road bike, which would explain the problem with your drops. You’re quite right, though, you shouldn’t need to use the drops – especially in the thin air up there!

    I recommend you purchase only products that are manufactured at a similar high altitude, just in case. Italy has lots of mountains, perhaps you could get a nice Italian bike; it should be far more robust to the thin air.

  58. Comment by kiwi | 12.11.2008 | 8:50 am

    Jean Yes… No Micheal balls jean for me( I can only dream)!

    Gap jeans for me, more money for cycling wear!


  59. Comment by Onan the Barbarian | 12.11.2008 | 10:05 am

    Welcome back, Fatty.

    FWIW: I took up tennis and JUST started playing ice hockey for the “off season”. I’m 45 and live in Minneapolis and yeah, I’m not a “hard core” cyclist during the winter months.

    Fat and proud.

  60. Comment by Linda | 12.11.2008 | 12:22 pm

    you could always challenge your athletic prowess as a guest participant in the Sumo Wrestling competition on the ‘Best Damn Sports Show’…the training for that is excruciating I am told.

  61. Comment by buckythedonkey | 12.11.2008 | 12:34 pm

    Welcome back.

  62. Comment by Boz | 12.11.2008 | 12:42 pm

    Eldon, what ever you do, don’t get a Nintendo Wii w/ the fit program. It is a lie filled cpu that insults all my theories about myself. I am not weak, unbalanced(muscle-wise), or obese. It sez I’m all of those terrible things. It also skews the results from it’s tests and training programs to reinforce it libelous conclusions. Stay away from it at all costs.

    Wait, it seems like I have the highest scores in my house. That makes me the King, right?

  63. Comment by SurlyCommuter | 12.11.2008 | 12:53 pm

    I read a very official report that showed definitively that fat cells, like matter, are constant, another feather in the cap of the re-distribution of weight theory.

    Its funny how all the really good weight loss information comes in the form of commercials after 9:00pm! I have ordered free thirty day trials of several GUARANTEED products for “people who don’t just want to lose weight, but pounds of body fat”. If I’m doing the math right I should lose around 98lbs and 19inches (I hope I don’t get shorter) in the next 7 days! Hooray!

  64. Comment by Charisa | 12.11.2008 | 1:32 pm

    I think if you purchase really super expensive clothes the sizing is smaller. Tricky marketing isn’t it? :)

    Thanks for the laughs today :)

  65. Comment by Dave in Lehi | 12.11.2008 | 1:37 pm

    Okay, I’ve been researching this for the past 24 hours, non-stop. I’ve downed 13 48 oz cans of Dr. Pepper, and ate my way through mine and my 3 kids’ gingerbread houses (lightly toasted with Reeses Pieces and Hershey Kisses) and have found the answer. It is a government conspiracy and here is my proof. I decided that I might be getting fat, but of course that can’t be true, but just in case I started a diet. Well, that day some dude wearing Men in Black attire, dropped an entire box of donuts on the table and said, “Take as many as you want.” You see, the government has put something in the donuts to make us fatter! Beware!!

  66. Comment by Flat Tired | 12.11.2008 | 8:12 pm

    Did you at least remember to close the lid afterwards?

    You’re a gem, Fatty!


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