Superfly 100 Vs. StumpJumper: Fight!
A Philly-Related LiveStrong-Related Note from Fatty: Folks have been asking if there will be a Team Fatty at the Philadelphia LiveStrong Challenge. Well, Philly Jen has told me she’d like to captain a Team Fatty there, which is incredibly cool of her. As promised, the Davis event was the big push for Team Fatty / LiveStrong this year, but the fact is, not everyone can get to Davis. And the Philly event is amazing. So, EastCoasters, click here to sign up!
A Topically-Relevant Note from Fatty: Today marks the beginning of the annual “Mostly, Fatty writes about Leadville” obsession. Thursday, there will be even more Leadville obsessing, including a liveblog Q&A featuring — along with LT100 fixtures Ricky McDonald and Dean Cahow, as well as Cole Chlouber — 2-time UCI World Cup winner, 2-time US Nat’l MTB champ, and 6-time Leadville Trail 100 MTB Race winner Dave Wiens.
I’ve got a Cap’n Ahab thing going with the Leadville Trail 100 MTB Race. I’ve started it fourteen times. Completed it thirteen times (1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005 , 2006, 2007, 2008, and 2010) and crashed out once, in 2009.
Fourteen tries. No finishes in under nine hours.
A week from this Saturday, I’ll be racing it for my fifteenth time. But for the first time ever, I don’t yet know what bike I’m going to ride.
Choice A: Trek Superfly 100
For several months, I had a pretty simple plan: take the strength and fitness I’ve developed by riding singlespeed for the past few years, and then blow the doors off the Leadville 100 by riding a geared, full-suspension bike: my Superfly 100:
Yes, yes, I know it’s dirty. It’s been rainy lately. Try not to focus on that, and instead pay attention to the fact that I’ve put together an extraordinary bike here: a 24.2-pound full-suspension 29er. Brand-new Shimano XTR throughout. Bontrager XXX carbon wheels.
A beautiful, incredibly functional, race-ready cross-country bike. A perfect bike for racing the Leadville 100.
Choice 1: Specialized S-Works StumpJumper 29er
But then, something happened. Specialized sent me a bike to try out [Full Disclosure: This bike is currently loaned to me, with an option to purchase later if I choose]. And not just any bike, either. They sent an S-Works Stumpjumper 29er. Observe:
Carbon Roval wheelset, SRAM XX components pretty much across the board. 20.5 pounds. A wicked-fast climber of a racing hardtail. A perfect bike for racing the Leadville 100.
So now I’ve got a bit of a dilemma. Specifically, which of these perfect bikes is — somehow more perfect for my goal of, finally, finishing this race with an elite racer’s time: under nine hours.
I know, it’s a horrible choice to have to make, and I welcome your sympathy.
Race it Out
At first, I tried making the choice by trying to decide which of the two bikes I preferred. But that got me nowhere. Whichever bike I happened to be on was the bike I preferred. This may happen to be because both bikes are top-of-the-line, beautiful, meticulously-engineered carbon marvels.
With a retail price of around $7000+ for either bike, you can bet that neither is going to exactly suck.
Then I had an idea: instead of basing my choice on which bike I liked better — a choice I don’t think I’ll ever be able to definitively make — I should base my choice on which bike I can ride faster.
The Course
I decided to take turns riding the course I am extremely familiar with — one I know so well that learning the trail shouldn’t be a factor at all. So I went with riding my favorite out-the-front-door, don’t-gotta-lotta-time mountain bike rides: Home to Hog Hollow to Jacob’s Ladder to Ghost Falls to Canyon Hollow to Brock’s to Hog Hollow to home again.
Unless you’re a local, of course, that will be totally meaningless. So while I’ll be giving a description of each of the major sections of the trail — along with how I thought each bike would do in those sections and then how they actually did — a little overview might be helpful.
First of all, here’s what the route looks like if you happen to be in outer space with a good camera:
That’s still not very descriptive, is it? OK, an elevation profile might help a little more:
There’s about 2,000 feet of climbing in this 14.7-mile ride, and a lot of variety — a very rocky doubletrack you’ve got to climb at the beginning and descend at the end, a treacherous, fast, technical singletrack descent with embedded rocks, forested, as well as buff forest singletrack — some ascending, some descending.
Really, a little bit of everything, all close to home. I don’t think this route plays favorites to either the Superfly or the StumpJumper.
Acknowledgement of Biases
I wanted this experiment to be as fair as possible, so I did the rides a week apart, on the same day of the week, with similar amounts of fatigue in my legs (in both cases, I had done a long, medium-effort road ride the previous day).
That said, it’s not exactly as if I came to this without any riding biases. I’m going to identify the ones I can think of here, so you can add appropriate amounts of salt to my descriptions in the rest of this writeup.
- A Gary Fisher Bias: Between the two of us, The Hammer and I own (Full Disclosure: have purchased) a Superfly 100, a Superfly Hardtail, two Superfly Singlespeeds, a Paragon, and a very old Sugar 2. You might say that we’re big fans of Gary Fisher bikes. So much so, in fact, that I felt a little bit guilty at the thought of even trying a Specialized. But I got over it, because I have a strong spirit, and because the S-Works Stumpjumper 29er is just so darned sexy.
- A Hardtail Bias: Prior to the Superfly 100, I haven’t owned / regularly ridden a full-suspension bike in at least seven years. I haven’t ridden regularly with even front suspension in about three years. So while I have a bias toward Gary Fishers in general, I have a bias toward the way hardtails (in this case, the Stumpjumper) ride.
- A “Type of Rider” Bias: Maybe this is a self-fulfilling prophecy kind of thing, but in general I think of myself as a climber. I pass people in the cliimbs, and get passed in descents. I think it’s likely that I don’t get the full advantage of a full suspension bike because I don’t make it do what it’s capable of doing. I.e., I descend like a sissy.
With all that said, when I took out each bike, I rode as hard as I could, with the intention of being as fast as I could and of making the bike proud to be ridden by me.
Timing Notes
I punched the “Lap” button as I passed certain significant points on the trail, to make it easy for me to see how I did for that section of the trail.
In order to keep me from trying to “better” my previous time on any particular section of the trail — an advantage I didn’t have the first time I did the ride — I set up my bike computer to not show time. Just distance.
OK, now on with the comparison.
Section 1: The Hog Hollow Climb
For the first section of the ride, I’m on pavement for about a mile or so — I expect this doesn’t favor either bike, since I can effectively lock out the rear suspension on the Superfly.
Then the Hog Hollow climb begins. This is a rocky ascent up a jeep road, with a very technical, eroded and rocky section toward the top.
Honestly, I expected this section to favor neither the StumpJumper nor the Superfly. The StumpJumper’s lighter, and the Superfly handles the rocky, embedded stuff more smoothly.
And in fact, my times for this section were close. In fact, they were ridiculously close:
- Superfly: 26:13
- StumpJumper: 26:16
A three second difference over the first 4.93 miles. Three seconds. Not a lot.
Section 2: The Jacob’s Ladder Climb
The brief (maybe a quarter mile) reprieve reprieve at the Hog Hollow saddle is followed immediately by a brutal climb up to another jeep road.
You have three choices as to which route you’re going up to that jeep road. The leftmost is easiest (but longest), the middle is more direct and difficult, and the rightmost route is very direct and is guaranteed to make you hurt by the time you reach the top.
For both the Superfly and the Stumpy, I took the rightmost route, and — to the credit of both bikes — made it up to the top without having to dismount and push.
Following this nasty little climb, you…well…continue climbing. But the route becomes less technical and even levels out for a bit, before hitting the final extremely steep mile, an old washed out ATV trail.
I assumed that I would be considerably faster on the StumpJumper than on the Superfly for this section — after all, it’s not especially technical. Not a lot for that full suspension to take advantage of. So a four-pound difference should win the day, right?
- StumpJumper: 11:10
- Superfly: 11:15
Hmmm. A five second difference. And, overall, for the nonstop climb from the lowest point in the ride (4,888 feet) to the highest point in the ride (6,302 feet) — I have a two second difference between the two bikes.
Hoo boy.
Section 3: The Jacob’s Ladder Descent
This next section is short. I figured that if there’s one section where the full suspension bike would outshine the hardtail, this would be it, so I wanted to isolate it.
The Jacob’s Ladder descent is extremely technical, rocky, and often pretty darned loose. A couple years ago, I made a video of it, riding with Brad:
I was surprised by the time gap between bikes:
- StumpJumper: 3:05
- Superfly: 3:06
One second? One? That could be the amount of time I took to find the “Lap” button on the GPS. That’s no time at all. And most importantly, I’m just as fast (slow) on a hardtail as a full-suspension bike when descending rough, rocky stuff.
I’m learning that sometimes, the lack of a difference can be startling.
Section 4: Jacob’s (Singletrack) to Ghost Falls to Canyon Hollow to Brock’s
This is my favorite part of the ride: smooth, fast, twisty singletrack. Some forested, some high-desert. Quite a bit of downhill, some uphill.
There are no more drops or ledges on this part of the trail, so I expected that the StumpJumper would have no disadvantage to the Superfly here. In fact, with the markedly shorter wheelbase, I expected the StumpJumper to maybe have an advantage on this part of the course, since it feels like I get around tight hairpin turns faster and easier on the StumpJumper than on the longer Superfly.
But check out the times:
- StumpJumper: 16:49
- Superfly: 16:49
The times are the same. To the second.
Guys, you are not making it easy for me to make a decision here.
Section 5: Hog Hollow to Home
This final section mostly retraces the first section, but now I’m going down the rocky jeep road. It seems like it would be an easy win for the Superfly.
And in fact, I made a riding error while descending with the StumpJumper and had to get off and get back onto a rideable line, which probably cost me fifteen seconds.
So I was surprised by the results of this final section:
- StumpJumper: 16:42
- Superfly: 17:29
The only (semi) significant difference between the two rides happens in this final leg — one where I’d expect the full suspension to win handily — and the advantage goes to the StumpJumper. 47 seconds.
Is it because I’m more used to descending on hardtails? Is it because I maybe pushed harder on the StumpJumper, trying to make up for my mistake early in the descent? Did I have a tailwind? Was it just a margin-of-error difference?
Or is the StumpJumper just a surprisingly awesome descender?
Conclusions
I started this experiment hoping to find a significant quantitative difference between a very top-of-the-line Superfly 100 and a very top-of-the-line StumpJumper.
And I didn’t. Probably some of it has to do with the fact that this is a short course and so can’t expose big differences that might appear over a long race. Like maybe the efficiency of the hardtail (the StumpJumper) will become important over the long haul. Or maybe the additional comfort full suspension (the Superfly 100) provides will be critical.
Even after doing the Leadville 100 as many times as I have, I just don’t know.
The overall times for the bikes are:
- StumpJumper: 1:14:05
- Superfly: 1:14:54
49 seconds, over 14.67 miles, with ~2000 feet of climbing and descending. That’s not a lot of variation.
Still, there are a few things I have observed by comparing these bikes — not just during this experiment, but as I’ve ridden each multiple times during the past few weeks.
- I love the new Shimano XTR. Riding both the bikes, one thing became clear that had nothing to do with the frames: the new Shimano XTR is sublime. I’ve never had braking that is so perfect. I’ve never had shifting that is so precise, with action that is so easy. I can do any shift, under any pedaling load. It’s amazing. This is not to say that SRAM XX isn’t good. It’s very good indeed. But Shimano XTR is off the charts. It’s a huge leap forward for MTB components. If you can find a way to afford Shimano XTR, you should.
- Perception is not reality. In every case, I felt like I was faster climbing on the StumpJumper than on the Superfly. A hardtail just feels more direct, and you get the sense you’re moving faster. But feeling faster isn’t the same as being faster. It was an interesting surprise to find that I’m essentially equivalent, regardless of what I’m riding.
- I’m in pretty good shape. Ever since I’ve lived in Alpine, I’ve occasionally timed myself from home to the beginning of the saddle of Hog Hollow. It takes me 28 minutes. This year, I’m getting to the end of the saddle in 26 minutes. If it takes about two minutes to get across the saddle (a reasonable guess), I’m about four minutes faster on this climb than I have been before. Maybe this year a sub-9 Leadville is within reach.
So, back to the original question: Which bike should I ride at Leadville this year?
I still don’t know.
I really don’t.
I’d love your opinion, though.
PS: If you’d like to geek out over the data, you’ll find the Superfly 100 ride here, and the StumpJumper ride here.
Comment by NYCCarlos | 08.2.2011 | 10:18 am
over 100 miles I think you’re gonna want the FS… but what do I know? I ride about 10 trail miles/year.
Comment by Daniel | 08.2.2011 | 10:26 am
Stumpjumper wins. Your ability to ride each bike over varied terrain is clearly the same or within the margin of error. But on a 100 mile route, being four pounds lighter is going to make a difference where it counts: at the end. Even if you’re not riding any faster in the beginning, you’re expending less energy. So at the end when you’re about to squeak under 9hrs and you need to push hard, you’ll have the legs to do it.
Comment by David | 08.2.2011 | 10:29 am
All other things being as equal as they are, you may be happier not having those 4lbs in the latter part of Leadville. Since you’ve been riding rigid bikes as long as you have, I doubt the added comfort of the full suspension would matter as much over the 100+ miles as the weight.
Also, “paradox of choice”
Comment by SteveS | 08.2.2011 | 10:29 am
Stumpjumper holds 2 water bottles; the Superfly only 1. Make your decision the way most Americans buy their cars: by the number of cupholders available. :-)
Comment by Anthony | 08.2.2011 | 10:31 am
Tough choice, but I’d lean toward the hardtail. Maybe swap the XTR group onto it though.
Instead of hitting the lap button, try uploading your garmin files to Strava.com and defining those pieces of the ride as segments. Then you’ll not just know how you do on them, but you compare to others…
Comment by GrizzlyAdam | 08.2.2011 | 10:36 am
In choosing a bike for the Crusher (cx vs. mtb), it came down to two things: 1) Which bike was I most confident/comfortable on, and 2) which was the lighter bike.
I won’t tell you which bike to ride. You know the Leadville course better than anyone, and so you’ll know how a HT will perform vs. a FS setup. But I will tell you this: That S-Works is dead sexy. And I’m not just saying that because I am now an owner of a Specialized carbon StumpJumper, albeit, not one as tricked out as yours.
Of course, one of the fastest riders I know recently told me that his Superfly 100 is the best bike he’s ever ridden. But then, he hasn’t ridden an S-Works StumpJumper.
Pick one. Put the other one away where you will not see it everyday, and forget about it. Otherwise you’ll be second-guessing yourself everytime you head out on a ride. But do take the off bike to the race, you know… just in case.
Comment by Jo | 08.2.2011 | 10:40 am
Fatty, ride the Superfly for a couple of reasons:
- There won’t be a huge difference between both bikes on the Leadville 100. But if you make it under 9 hrs, you wanna be on a Gary Fisher. Especially one you paid for.
- If you use the StumpJumper and make it under 9 hrs, you will have to buy it, won’t you? Save the money for your children’s education.
- More rational: on the 100 miles you might want to go with the bike you’re totaly familiar with. A slightly different position may hurt your performance.
- Last but not least: the Superfly is just the more beautiful bike.
Just my 2 cents.
Comment by Jeff | 08.2.2011 | 10:40 am
Stick with what you know and have ridden the most. Don’t change components, especially swapping out bikes so soon before your race!! Unless you’ve had the stumpjumper long enough to have a really, really solid feel for how it’s gonna respond in all the situations you might put it through at the LT100, I’d say to stick with what you know best and feel most comfortable with.
Both sound like great bikes, so either way, it won’t be the bike that is the limiter.
Comment by Marc | 08.2.2011 | 10:47 am
it was slightly cooler when you rode the superfly…
Comment by Corbin | 08.2.2011 | 10:52 am
Was there any difference in energy expenditure? More calories burned on one bike vs. the other?
Comment by KM | 08.2.2011 | 10:55 am
Quit whining and ride the one you performed best on….oh who am I kidding, you’re going to ride that GF, your GF crush will overwhelm you.
Whining? You saw this post as whiny? – FC
Comment by Garcia | 08.2.2011 | 11:00 am
Stumpjumper for sure (but I am biased towwards Specialized, and hardtails)
Comment by DavidV | 08.2.2011 | 11:04 am
I think you should let the Hammer ride both and let you know which you should ride. We all know she’s a better rider than you anyway. :-)
Comment by Jeff Higham | 08.2.2011 | 11:05 am
Fatty,
I race a 23lb Superfly 100 and love it. With that said, RIDE THE SPECIALIZED!
3 reasons.
1. It is a climbing race so lighter is better.
2. You don’t need a double-squishy for Leadville. If I were to ride my SF100 in Leadville (because it is the only bike I have), I’d put 200PSI in the shock to make it ride like a HT to increase the climbing efficiency.
3. You rode the Specialized faster in your extremely scientific test… go with the results!
Good luck racing!
Comment by rol | 08.2.2011 | 11:17 am
hardtail it all the way Fats….having said that at that level/price the bike does not make a difference….
Comment by Jon | 08.2.2011 | 11:17 am
stump jumper… if it gets completely destroyed during the race you don’t have to pay to fix it.
Comment by mark | 08.2.2011 | 11:17 am
It doesn’t matter which bike you ride–either will get the job done just fine. I would be more worried about pacing and nutrition strategies.
Comment by Heather S | 08.2.2011 | 11:19 am
I say Specialized, because you can always try the Superfly next year.
Do you have time to repeat your experiment a few more times?
Comment by Jeff Dieffenbach | 08.2.2011 | 11:19 am
I don’t know the course all that well (but did watch the Race Across the Sky movie the year that Levi won), so I don’t know the names/locations of the rest stops, but any value in swapping bikes at one of them? The one I’m picturing must be somewhere after the Powerline descent and before the Columbine climb (perhaps somewhere around the 30 and 70 mile marks).
Maybe you should let your readers vote. $5 a vote sounds about right. Perhaps you could even donate the money you raise, that is if you can come up with a good charity to support.
All else being equal, Superfly. You REALLY want to do this on your own bike. And that holds even if the Specialized is going to become your bike.
Comment by Anonymous | 08.2.2011 | 11:22 am
Too close to call….perhaps the only solution will be to give me one of the bikes and as a result the decision will have already be made.
Thanking you in advance.
Lou
Comment by JL | 08.2.2011 | 11:23 am
Where are all the mathletes? Extrapolate 14.67 miles and 2000 feet climb to 100 miles and 14000 feet climb and your 49 second difference equates to 5 min 34 second difference.
Comment by chtrich | 08.2.2011 | 11:25 am
Ride the SJ since you’re more comfortable with a HT. That is why your time was better even on the rocky down hills.
You also proved that a stable of bikes isn’t necessary. It’s the motor, not the machine.
Comment by sdcadbiker | 08.2.2011 | 11:25 am
Stumpy. It has everything you need for a sub-9 Pbville (i.e. gears) and nothing that you don’t need (no excess weight, no energy-sucking rear suspension). You rode 9:15 on a rigid ss last year, the Stumpy gives you just enough of an edge to make the most of your increased fitness and finally crush this race.
Comment by Curt | 08.2.2011 | 11:30 am
I wish I had the same dilemma you are in!
Comment by Liz | 08.2.2011 | 11:35 am
All those egg whites so you could ride the GF at Leadville and now this dilemma?
Really, it doesn’t matter which one you ride; you are doing so well that you will have a great race no matter what.
Have fun, looking forward to the race report.
P.S. Elden, I noticed you falling down the leaderboard at Plus3Network. Have you not uploaded your data recently?
Comment by bikemike | 08.2.2011 | 11:54 am
do the stumpjumper. ride a piece of history…it started it all.
Comment by Dave T | 08.2.2011 | 12:18 pm
Up until about 4 years ago I was perfectly happy with my hard tail. I was convinced I could climb faster with the hard tail vs any heavy pogoing full suspension bike on the market. Well after riding a friends Blur, I purchased a Nomad about 4 years ago and found not only do climb just about as fast I’m a lot less fatigued after a long ride. I still have my hard tail but it sits unridden most of the time. For a 100 mile ride I would go with the Superfly.
Comment by Arizona Guy | 08.2.2011 | 12:29 pm
I got beat by 5 hours last year at the Baily Hundo by JHK when he rode a SuperFly and I rode a Stumpjumper.
It is pretty clear that the SuperFly is a few hours faster…
Comment by D. | 08.2.2011 | 12:29 pm
Thresher did it SS on a steel bike with no front SUS in well under 9hrs. Harden up Elden!
How many commenters have actually ridden this course? It’s a HT course where the extra bottle cage will actually be more helpful than squish.
Comment by Rick | 08.2.2011 | 12:31 pm
Which bike do you feel more comfortable on? Keep riding both until you know which bike feels right.
Comment by Geo | 08.2.2011 | 12:35 pm
I’m off to work, should I drive my Bentley or my Rolls Royce? Such decisions.
I always thought the life of a super, mega, uber-cycling blogger was all cushy. I guess you really have hard decisions to make.
That said I would go with what you have ridden more and feel more comfortable on. Something you have ridden on a 100-mile ride before.
But, what do I know, I rarely get off road and only switch onto the mtb when I ride with my little boy because it is better than my road for that.
Comment by Tara | 08.2.2011 | 12:35 pm
Did you notice that the Stumpjumper appears to have red spokes!? Enough said.
Comment by briebecca | 08.2.2011 | 12:44 pm
Ride whatever bike you’ve ridden the most at Leadville. What did you ride last year – The Supefly SS? That way….. you’ll know it’s really *you* and not the spankin’ new bike you’ve got under you.
If you get sub-9 with the Stumpjumper, won’t you be wondering if it was the bike that did it or the engine?
Comment by MikeL | 08.2.2011 | 12:46 pm
Rock, paper, scissors?
Comment by davidh-marin,ca | 08.2.2011 | 12:53 pm
Amazing how many experts on Leadville we have.
Personally I think you should ride your rigid single speed. If I had done the ride 14 times (if I could even have done it once!) I think I would always have that nagging whisper that my first sub 9 was on my ‘fallback’ bike, whichever that was. You were only 15 minutes off sub 9 last year, and as you yourself have said you well conditioned this year to race. Then again I like Levi’s comment about racing Leadville…
“I don’t know. It might be best to do it once, have the record, and just leave it at that,” he said. “It’s a very epic race, and I’m glad I did it, but at the same time it was pretty damn hard. I’m not sure I ever want to go and suffer like that again.” (from Velonews July 29th Neal Rogers)
Comment by Jim | 08.2.2011 | 1:10 pm
Ride the hardtail. That way, the Trek folks will get insecure about your loyalty, and send you the latest Gary Fisher to test.
Comment by Paul Guyot | 08.2.2011 | 1:12 pm
As I told you a year ago…
Ride with gears and you WILL finish in under nine hours, or else I will give you a speaking role on LEVERAGE.
(you’ll probably get that anyway, but I just want to be acknowledged as the guy who knew you could break 9 with gears)
And try the Stumpy.
Comment by Eufemiano Fuentes | 08.2.2011 | 1:12 pm
The race is pretty much a dirt road race right?
Hardtail, hands down.
Comment by Micha | 08.2.2011 | 1:14 pm
Do you have to purchase the Stumpjumper if you crash and damage it?
Comment by rich | 08.2.2011 | 1:14 pm
First off, I hate that you have to make such tough decisions (yes, green is an ugly color for me)
Personally, I think you’re probably strong enough that either bike, along with your current fitness will net you a sub 9 hour finish.
If it were me, there’s no way I’d consider a “new” bike for a race like this. Ride what you’ve been riding and are comfortable with…
Of course, I think since you’re not riding the specialized, you should probably send it my way to eliminate any second guessing on your part….
Comment by Louie | 08.2.2011 | 1:20 pm
While i am admittedly a gary fisher guy, the numbers dont lie haha. You should ride the stumpjumper. the weight difference is huge over the course, not to mention you were technically faster on the stumpjumper AND it was hotter outside during that ride.
The weight advantage behooves you, especially since you have ridden leadville so often on a hardtail and how much climbing there is….
Comment by Joe L. | 08.2.2011 | 1:22 pm
Echoing what “Anthony” said earlier, I also suggesting trying out Strava.com instead of Garmin Connect. You can define segments of a ride on the map, and whenever you do that segment again on a different ride it will auto-detect the segment allow you to compare the rides, and keep a running history of your performance over time. It will also compare you against other Strava users who have done the same segment.
after getting endlessly frustrated over the years with MotionBased/Garmin Connect, mapmyride, and several other mapping sites, I finally found Strava a couple weeks ago and have been very, very happy.
it also comes with some HTML widgets that you can embed in your side-bar that will be auto-updated with your most recent rides.
Comment by Big E | 08.2.2011 | 1:23 pm
The four pounds is a big difference. But I would let your butt and back be your guide. If on a hundered mile mtb race your booty and back get really fatigued I would go with the Fisher. You will be less beat up and able to go faster towards the end of the race when you can make up the most time. If not, go with the Stumpjumper.
Comment by Boz | 08.2.2011 | 1:28 pm
That is a dilemma for sure. The weight difference over a long day in the saddle is key here.
I haven’t ridden the new XTR, but have a 29er w/ the new 30 speed XT/SLX combination, and it is smooth and quiet, never misses a shift, totally flawless even full of mud and grass. Can’t imagine how the XTR must be.
Comment by Lucas | 08.2.2011 | 1:40 pm
I love my Stumpy HT… so I am biased ;)
Comment by Jacob | 08.2.2011 | 1:46 pm
Here would be my thought process if I were in your shoes. You were loaned the Specialized with the option of buying and the bikes were essentially equal with the Specialized potentially performing slightly better. If I thought I could possibly pull some sponsorship type of thing with Specialized (reduced buying price than what I already have/or something else in return for riding the bike in the race and then talking about it), I’d go with it. Otherwise I’d flip a coin.
And honestly, I wouldn’t fault you for letting the money/sponsorship win the argument. It’s not like you’re taking an inferior bike just out of greed. It’d also be a good way to test it. You’re going to have the Superfly until you fall off a cliff and break the frame. You can always take it next year. Not the same with the Specialized.
Of course, what you should really do is just ride the the Superfly, send the Specialized back and exchange it for one in my size and mail it to me. I’d really appreciate that.
Comment by The Flyin' Ute | 08.2.2011 | 1:48 pm
Since I’m not a fence sitter I vote for the Hard Tail. It’s fast, light, and efficient and I prefer XTR. Solid choice.
The real factor at leadville though will be how rested you are. I would put both bikes away and recover right now. The hay is in the barn. Anything you do from here on out is going to hurt you.
Last year I only rode for 2 hours total in the month of August until Leadville. The entire day before the race I laid down with my legs up and watched movies. I was rested!!!!!!! I was so twitchy to ride it was killing me, but I stuck to the plan.
It paid off. So, Rest up.
Comment by Janey | 08.2.2011 | 1:53 pm
Are you still working… I mean, your job… I think its the tech writing you do in your basement? How about sleep? Does all this energy come from the Honey Waffles? I don’t think I’m that much older than you and it hurts my brain just to keep up with your blog!!
Comment by rmullen | 08.2.2011 | 1:57 pm
Let work (w) be the amount of energy transferred by a force acting through a distance in the direction of the force. Assume Fatty weighs 160 pounds, or 72.5 kilograms. The mechanical work (W) performed is equal to the change in kinetic energy (E_k1 to E_k2) of the mass (m) in question, which is the mass of Fatty plus the mass of the bike, or is one-half m times the the change in velocity between time =1 and time =2. For simplicity, assume an average climbing gradient of 8 percent and constant force with respect to time along vector d. Then work (w) equals the dot product of Force (F) and vector d; or W = F*d*cos(theta). It can easily be shown that the previous equation is proportional to m*(d)onuts*tan(theta), and that the difference in w between pushing a bike that weighs 24.2 pounds and one that weighs 20.5 pounds (roughly 1.86783 kilograms) is donut*distance*tan(theta). It is commonly known that caffeine is equivalent to tan(theta), so the consumption of any energy drink (only ONE per aid station!) en route simplifies the previous equation to 4 lbs*80.46 kilometers*x donuts. Note, I am counting the uphill miles here, assuming no work by Fatty on the down hills. Solve for x, and you’ve got 321.84 donuts, or 7654.4927 Joules. That’s the energy you will have saved with the StumpJumper over the course of the race.
Comment by Martin | 08.2.2011 | 2:00 pm
These results prove one thing (or two):
- That the bike doesn’t matter (which means that marketing works…)
- That marketing works (Aren’t you ’sponsored’ by Shimano???)
So conclusion: It all comes down to the colour and the look of the bike.
In short, the dilemma of the (over)consumer.
Comment by Doug (way upstate NY) | 08.2.2011 | 2:11 pm
Superfly. For one reason. You lost more than 4 pounds to build the bike. It deserves to be ridden.
Comment by Shane | 08.2.2011 | 2:17 pm
It’s a tough choice i am a fan of Specialized, but i’d ride the super fly for 3 reasons. Reason number one-it has full suspension. Hardtails are for young people. Reason number 2-it has nicer shifty bits. Reason number 3-I dislike sram (very much).
Comment by Dan in Sac | 08.2.2011 | 2:20 pm
I’m getting carbon envy.
You are the machine. Ride the Stumper.
Oh, and I liked GrizzlyAdam’s suggestion.
Comment by ecco | 08.2.2011 | 2:25 pm
On the one hand, the singlespeed would let you kill the elusive 9-hour whale using equipment of old; sub-9:00 is all you. On the other, if you ride the Stumpjumper without breaking 9:00, then the Superfly will be there next year; in this case, you can blame the bike you don’t own and not yourself nor your bike.
Mostly, though, I’m with Doug from Way Upstate NY: you sacrificed to keep the Superfly; time to see what you can do together.
Comment by Helena | 08.2.2011 | 2:32 pm
Four pounds is a TON. Sure, ignore that on your short no-time-for-a-real-ride route, but on a race over 100 miles? I’m sure some mathlete can figure out how many extra watts you’ll have to push to keep up the same pace. Go with the lighter bike. At mile 87, you’ll thank me.
Comment by .@.. | 08.2.2011 | 2:34 pm
Get an Ibis Mojo WTF, weighs less than GF but sl more than stumpy, plus more suspension for the downhills.
Comment by Beth | 08.2.2011 | 2:35 pm
Having recently lost weight, and seeing what a huge difference just a few pounds makes on a small climb, I think the obvious choice is the Stumpy. It’s a race, you want to be fast, not plush and comfy. Yes, you lost weight to build the Fisher, but REALLY you lost weight to get a sub-9 hour race.
Comment by Jeremy | 08.2.2011 | 2:40 pm
Whichever one you choose, you can send the spare to me.
Comment by Adventure Nell | 08.2.2011 | 3:00 pm
Take both…you will know on the day you are racing which one you feel like riding that day.
Comment by Erik | 08.2.2011 | 3:08 pm
Which one does The Woman like best?
Comment by 3d brian | 08.2.2011 | 3:17 pm
Superfly
Because: You worked your tail off by losing 15 or so pounds in a month to keep that bike and you spent your own money on that bike. Plus you like the components on it better.
As far as the speed difference my statistician friend would say that the difference in speed is not statistically relevant – meaning you don’t have enough data and/or enough difference in the data to know which bike is faster.
Comment by Richard | 08.2.2011 | 3:24 pm
Crush 9:00 on your single speed. 15th time is the charm.
Comment by Brandon | 08.2.2011 | 3:55 pm
You know I am a fan of full suspension. But having never ridden the Superfly 100, and where I have ridden the Stumpjumper, I say ride the Specialized.
Comment by Jenni | 08.2.2011 | 4:22 pm
Hardtail. Here’s why.
You will exponentially more badass finishing under 9 hours on the hardtail.
I’ve been reading about your fitness for years now and this year I think you’re really in exceptional shape- you’re crushing goals left and right.
Hardtail. It’s who you are- that crazy nut riding Leadville on THAT?!
Besides, I agree with the argument that 100 miles on a bike where the fit might be just slightly different from what you’re used to could negate all these minute time differences as you’re in a new world of pain you can’t avoid.
Comment by AngieG | 08.2.2011 | 4:24 pm
Let THE HAMMER choose for you. She has great skills, she chose you didn’t she. :-)
Comment by GJ Jackie | 08.2.2011 | 4:45 pm
As a late 40s person myself, I think the youth out there don’t appreciate the importance of comfort in a long ride. Dual suspension = more comfortable = better in long run.
You earned it, Fatty. Ride it.
Comment by Matt Strudkman | 08.2.2011 | 4:55 pm
I would go Stumpy. First, the SRAM is a little less finicky in my opinion. Second, here, people are snapping Superfly 100’s like twigs during routine riding, not crashing.
Matt
Comment by davidh-marin,ca | 08.2.2011 | 5:10 pm
I’m with AngieG. A woman’s perspective trumps a man’s every time…except power tools, of course.
Comment by davidh-marin,ca | 08.2.2011 | 5:14 pm
New honorary member of Team Fatty. Protecting bike lanes from illegally parked cars….with a tank
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/envoy/vilnius-mayor-mounts-tank-crush-car-parked-bike-194309742.html
Like It!
Comment by Days | 08.2.2011 | 5:56 pm
Perhaps there’s more evaluation to be done. What if.. you swapped the XTR to the Stumpjumper and put the SRAM on the ‘Fly?
Oh never mind…
Comment by Jon | 08.2.2011 | 6:18 pm
Hardtail all the way. It was slightly faster, and you’ll be glad you have the lighter bike towards the end of the ride. Plus, those 49 seconds will become a bigger gain on the course. 9:07 isn’t under 9, is it? Think about it.
Comment by Clydesteve | 08.2.2011 | 6:20 pm
Fatty – You will do sub-9 on either. But if you do sub-9 on the Stumpjumper you will be required pshchologically speaking to buy it and lick it.
But you already own the Superfly. Win on the Superfly and invest the difference with World bicycle Relief!
best,
Steve
Comment by T Foster | 08.2.2011 | 6:24 pm
Is it just me or does a bike facing left seem unnatural or uncomfortable? Sinister dare I say? I don’t like it for that reason; but I’d ride it given the opportunity.
P.S. They should give you the bike given the exposure they have gained already.
Comment by Mtbboy | 08.2.2011 | 6:29 pm
stick with the Fisher…seems to me that they have been pretty good to you over the years and that is where the choice should come from……why not a geared Superfly hardtail????
Comment by roan | 08.2.2011 | 7:08 pm
I’m leaning one way(SuperFly), then the other way (Stumpjumper. Swaying with each that I’m about to do a face plant right smackdab in the middle. Take the FIRST LETTER FROM EACH AND YOU HAVE YOUR ANSWER.
Your 15th Leadville, is it the bike or is it you ?
Again you know the answer. And there will be not lingering nagging doubt…except for ‘what if the gears’…maybe…dang…now I’m swaying again !
DANG IT! JUST ASK THE HAMMER.
Comment by Wife#1 | 08.2.2011 | 8:23 pm
@Clydesteve… PERFECT!
‘Nuff said.
Comment by Rob | 08.2.2011 | 8:37 pm
Don’t go with f/s, too many parts to break. Lance will still like you if you went with a specialized.
Comment by ludo | 08.2.2011 | 9:30 pm
Nice,you get to make a choice between two of the most cool 29’s out there and get to race leadville year after year. I say hard tail as my slowest time was on a sus bike. The weight will make a greater difference in the long run. I have done leadville 7 times,2 sub 9’s only once on a full sus, spec. My friend DW told me that one of his hardest wins was on a fully sus. I hope you get your sub 9 this year. Just ride smooth and calm. I at one time had a goal of finishing 10 LV100 but can’t get past the lottery any more and to pay an extra 135 to qualy just isn’t right. I hope there aren’t too many people out there that think they can get the 10 year belt buckle. Go fast and I hope you can get that sub 9. Jim
Comment by rabidrunner | 08.2.2011 | 9:41 pm
I have no opinion on your bipedal mode of Leadville Conquering, I just want to say that this was an awesomely entertaining post. And then for giggles, I thought I could leave you with some fun quotes about decision making (I know! Fun!)
“If a man cannot choose, he ceases to be a man.” ~ Anthony Burgess (A Clock Wor
“A good solution applied with vigor now is better than a perfect solution applied ten minutes later.” – General George S. Patton, Jr.
“Although every man believes that his decisions and resolutions involve the most multifarious factors, in reality they are a mere oscillation between flight and longing.” – Herman Broch
And my personal favorite:
“When choosing between two evils, always choose the one you haven’t tried yet.” – Mae West. This means you should go out and find a third bike.
Comment by chapell | 08.3.2011 | 12:44 am
Clearly if Specialized REALLY loved you they would have sent the SWorks Carbon Epic 29er….so go with the GF.
Comment by Jenn | 08.3.2011 | 1:41 am
Am I the only one who thinks it’s a bad idea to be advertising your home address to the Dr. Lammler’s of the world? I worry about your safety.
Comment by Patrick #4091 | 08.3.2011 | 2:00 am
If you’re not going to buy it, maybe the Stumpjumper this year and the Superfly next year?
Comment by Cookster | 08.3.2011 | 2:37 am
Can you do a bike swap half way around the course and get a bit of action on each? (All the pros seem to have a neverending supply of bikes on a car)
btw typo in blog, you have two i’s in “climbs”
Comment by PBA | 08.3.2011 | 5:23 am
You conduct a pseudo scientific test and then you question the results? The evidence says go Specialized.
This is a similar bike to those you are most familiar with and it’s lighter…
When you’ve finished Leadville in the past have you been wishing your bike was lighter or the course less bumpy???
I do wonder if you might be favouring the GF as you’ve paid for it? Thats a HUGE amount of money for a bike you are now suspecting you lack the skills to make the most of?
Comment by JoAnn | 08.3.2011 | 6:21 am
Stumpjumer all the way!!!
Comment by Bill | 08.3.2011 | 6:22 am
XTR on Stumpy…
Comment by MoE | 08.3.2011 | 6:44 am
3 reasons to ride the Stumpy…
1. 4 pounds over 100 miles is substantial
2. 5.5 minutes faster in 100 miles per your test data
3. 2 bottle cages
Comment by VT_Rob | 08.3.2011 | 7:32 am
I wish I had such problems….
I think this proves what I’ve been saying for years…it’s the law of diminishing returns. It’s the motor that matters, and either $7K bike will be fast.
Comment by MattC | 08.3.2011 | 7:49 am
Your short test rides are apples and oranges to a 100 mile race. Maybe you just need more time on the FS, cuz an good FS is most assuredly faster on any rough downhill IF you ride it like it’s supposed to be ridden (sounds like you rode it like it was a HT being as that’s what all your time has been on the last few years). In all your finishes at Leadville, how are you feeling in the last hour or so?
How much standing-up are you doing over the course of 9 hours on an HT? (cuz you have been riding it on a HT where your legs are the suspension)? If you ride the GF, SIT DOWN 98% of the time (even when you think you need to stand) and let the cushy bits do their stuff…and I’d think after 100 miles you will be amazed.
I can say from experience that I had a SWEET Trek OCLV carbon HT for ages (think Rocket Boy Travis Brown)…and when I finally got a FS Blur there was no looking back. The FS wins EVERY TIME! Finally dumped the carbon HT cuz there was NO situation where it ruled (and I’m getting old, and cush for the tush is worth it’s weight in gold!)
Just my 2 cents worth. You are a stallion this year…you’re gonna crush it.
Comment by Ted | 08.3.2011 | 8:27 am
Would you rather break the 9 hour mark on a bike that you specifically spec’d out to be your dream bike or on a bike that a company randomly sent to you to try out? Breaking the 9 hour mark on a loaner bike will always leave you wondering if you could have also done it on your true love. Go with the Superfly.
Comment by Matt | 08.3.2011 | 8:44 am
Maybe the tires should be the same between the two test bikes….
Comment by Meredith | 08.3.2011 | 9:08 am
I vote the 3rd option of Single Speed. You keep raving about how you are probably in the best shape of your life. I would have to think a sub 9 on that bike would be a much grander victory.
If that isn’t an option, I vote Superfly. You paid for it and lost the weight. That said, it will be more about you on race day than the bike on any of the bikes. You can do it!
Comment by DavidV | 08.3.2011 | 9:08 am
Dave Wiens suggests carbon hard tail.
http://singletrack.competitor.com/2011/08/video/dave-wiens-leadville-bike-choice_19211
Comment by Bike Nazi | 08.3.2011 | 9:13 am
Think about the key points on the Leadville course. Do you find the power line descent treacherous? Can you be comfortable descending on the HT? I hear it’s the most technical descent, but you’ve ridden it. Also think about which bike you’d rather push up the Columbine climb. I’d opt for the lighter bike. Same for pushing up the powerline climb. I think the HT is the way to go.
Angie
http://bikingnazi.blogspot.com/
Comment by Tyler G | 08.3.2011 | 9:34 am
Better yet give Trek a call and get an apple to apple comparison, Have them send you a Superfly HT so you have an apple to apple ride and still hold true to your Trek (GF) Roots. For all the nice giveaways and great things Travis and the guys at Trek have done for you, don’t slap them in the face this late in the race. Get a superfly on loan or just ride your superfly 100 and call it a sub 9:00 year. Your massive leg pistons are going to be the deciding factor anyway.
Comment by Jeff S | 08.3.2011 | 9:43 am
Superfly 100, hands down. Just got one this year and it’s like cheating. I’m sure you know that it can feel like a hard tail on the climbs with the flick of a switch, or two switches if you want the full rigid feel.
Comment by John | 08.3.2011 | 9:50 am
Fatty,
Why not try the same trail loop on one of your old 26′r bikes. Maybe a 29′r is what is really holding you back from 9 hrs :>). Also, I think you would have to evaluate HR and ambient temperature as another metric to see which rig is more “efficient” from an biometric viewpoint. Good luck at Leadville!
Comment by Josh in Upstate NY | 08.3.2011 | 9:53 am
I think you should let me ride the two in three weeks when I’m passing through Provo! 8~) Sounds like a tough choice, being a GF guy myself I’d lean towards the Superfly, but stats don’t lie… Good luck!
Comment by Cyclin' Missy | 08.3.2011 | 10:30 am
Maybe if you haven’t ridden it on a 29-er, you should give that a try…just to do something different.
Comment by The Quix | 08.3.2011 | 10:46 am
Gary Fisher all the way!
Look at the frustration and rage riding on a specialized bike causes.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/picturethis/2015720922_pt_contador.html
Comment by davidh-marin,ca | 08.3.2011 | 10:50 am
Didn’t both Lance and Levi set record times on a FS? You’ve ridden with them, can we go three for three? If Lance is there (he just won a qualifier in Crested Butte) maybe he would set tempo for you.
Comment by The Quix | 08.3.2011 | 10:54 am
Also didn’t you crash out on a hard tail?
Comment by Graeme | 08.3.2011 | 11:09 am
Who has done more to support your fight against cancer; Trek and Shimano or Specialized and SRAM?
Comment by Broomie | 08.3.2011 | 11:21 am
There was a test done showing that riding a full suspension bike creates less muscles damge over a distance meaning you should definitely ride the Superfly. Of course handling a significantly lighter bike will pay off so you should definitely ride the Stumpjumper.
Comment by Greg | 08.3.2011 | 11:21 am
Good luck deciding. The only thing I know for sure is that both of those bikes are daaaang sexy. Is it weird that I want to lick them?
Comment by Dopey | 08.3.2011 | 12:49 pm
First off, I don’t ride mtn bikes. I find the tarmac to be the most appealing; therefore, I have no bias whatsoever b/t the Superfly and Stumpjumper. Second, I tend to agree with Corbin- I’d like to see more data. Particularly your HR data (power data would be better) to get an idea of effort on both bikes. If both bikes are perceptually a wash, then your body becomes the common denominator- on what bike did you spend less effort? Third, I’m a roady so I say drop 4 lbs and sail up the climbs, esp. if you descend like a feather. What good will a FS do you? So barring any physio data to suggest otherwise, I vote Stumpjumper.
Comment by GenghisKhan | 08.3.2011 | 2:06 pm
All lickability aside, Dopey’s got some good thoughts, assuming you want to be uber physio-geeky (and you should, given the race!).
Comment by davidh-marin,ca | 08.3.2011 | 2:38 pm
What I enjoy so much about this blog is the opportunity to use Fatty’s own words to make a point. Fatty makes his mind up quickly, and it has always been good.
“When I saw Susan, I was immediately stricken…. I can’t help but be amazed that I made such a good choice so quickly.”
“So: a hot chick that rides a 29? singlespeed mountain bike, and loves the race I love. I’m genuinely happy —….— and I owe a lot of that to The Runner”
rabidrunner suggested a third bike
(Comment by rabidrunner | 08.2.2011 | 9:41 pm)
Racer could put that XTR on the true GF bike and you’d have hardtail and gears!! After all this is the FATTY BIKE.
Like they say: “Dance with the one who brought you”
Comment by RodNeeds2Ride | 08.3.2011 | 2:39 pm
In the world of firearms they say “Any gun will do…if you will.” Pick one of those bad boys and GET ‘ER DONE!
Good luck Fatty!
Comment by bykjunkie | 08.3.2011 | 3:07 pm
Superfly! Go with your heart!
Comment by Wash | 08.3.2011 | 3:11 pm
Is the gearing identical on the bikes?
All else being equal, 4 lbs is a LOT. I have to think you’re going to feel those pounds on a long, steep race.
Comment by Brendan | 08.3.2011 | 3:40 pm
Some other things that I would factor in if I was facing this 21st-century-palefaced-man-living-in-America “problem:”
1. GF prefers frame geometry that goes down hills better than up them; score points for the Stumpjumper.
2. As someone else pointed out, Contador would ride a Specialized; score bigger points for SuperFly100.
3. I may be mistaken, but neither one was made in the USA. If I was spending $7k on a bike, it would be made by master craftsman with a big bushy beard who personally measured my body then built me a frame made of unobtanium in a bicycle shangri-la workshop somewhere in the rocky mountains or other heavily wooded area. Personally, I’d rather support that guy and ride a bike was 100% mine and unlike any other. Then again, I’m 1/2 way through Robert Penn’s brilliant “It’s All About the Bike.” But since you don’t have time for that, and there’s not really much difference between them, ride the one that makes you go the fastest.
Comment by Jimmy joe lorna jean | 08.3.2011 | 6:34 pm
This is easy. Ride the singlespeed. You don’t want a sub-9, you want a sub-9 singlespeed. If you ride the geared and get 8:45 or less, you’ll always wonder.
Comment by wes | 08.3.2011 | 8:36 pm
In reading your award winning blog I can tell you that Gary Fisher has been a long time friend of Fatty and that just may be the only difference you need. It isn’t to say that Specialized isn’t a great company but along the way you took up a fight against a horrible disease and it seems to me that GF has been there along the way donating bikes to give away and just generally being awesome, maybe if Specialized does this too then they can earn the Fatty stamp of approval too ( full diclosure i ride a cannondale so I am impartial to both)
Comment by Bike Hire Brisbane | 08.3.2011 | 11:01 pm
Great article. I have to lean towards the Stumpjumper on this one purely because I have a soft spot for hardtails but also a soft spot for Specialized. I suppose the proof is in the times listed above. Heck the Stumpjumper is an institution amongst mountain bikes. If you are ever in Brisbane, Australia please stop by and say hi!
Comment by Garrett | 08.4.2011 | 7:38 am
I can’t help you decide which bike to choose, but I would recommend getting a shorter stem if you want to improve your descending skills. Heavy feet, light hands!
Comment by Sara | 08.4.2011 | 10:08 am
Regardless of which bike you choose-it better help produce an awesome race report! :) Can’t wait for the rundown of the upcoming race!
Comment by Lucky Cyclist | 08.4.2011 | 6:29 pm
I read a respected blog once that said a totally pimped out Specialized was like riding a totally pimped out Corolla.
The name of the blog escapes me.
That being said, I have been a Specialized fan forever.
And four pounds of bike is significant
Comment by KanyonKris | 08.4.2011 | 10:41 pm
Superfly 100. It was only a little slower on a short ride but I believe it will get faster the farther you go because the suspension will reduce fatigue. But if you want the honor of sub-9 on a hardtail, go for the Specialized.
Comment by pedalpink | 08.5.2011 | 7:36 am
TANDEM!
I’m still hoping you’ll consider the Fandango 29′er mountain bike tandem. WIth Lisa as stoker powering you up Hog Hollow, Jacob’s Ladder and all the other climbs you will sub-9 and set a new Leadville tandem record. All without even pedaling (let’s switch up that old “she’s not pedaling” comment).
And think how fun it will be to pass everyone on the descents.
But I’ll be cheering for you no matter what bike you ride.
Comment by Z | 08.6.2011 | 1:35 am
Clone yourself and ride both;))
Pingback by Fat Cyclist » Blog Archive » Yes, That is My Final Answer | 08.10.2011 | 8:56 am
[...] And that includes packing a bike. Either the Trek Superfly 100, or the Specialized Which was not an easy decision, at all. And — I should have expected this — getting everyone’s opinions on what I should ride only made the question more complicated. [...]