I Am Getting Ready to Interview Phil and Paul

01.11.2011 | 11:04 pm

Tuesday afternoon, I got an email from Versus’ PR company, with the big, bold, all-caps, and centered proclamation:





Wow. With that kind of emphasis, it simply cannot be denied: this is truly important information, and must be shared. Right away.

I read the rest of the announcement, then immediately copied and pasted the entire thing into my handy blog editing software (recently moved from Ecto to MarsEdit, in case you’re curious, which you aren’t).

With — of course — the intent of courteously providing a pro bono edit of the press release.

Change of Heart

And then I saw the personal note above the announcement:

Phil Liggett and Paul Sherwen, the undisputed voices of cycling, will be on site in Australia to provide insight and commentary for each day of the network’s coverage. Please let me know if you would be interested in speaking to Phil and/or Paul this week to preview the upcoming race.


Well. That changes things. Specifically, it changes what I’m writing for today’s post. Even more specifically, it means that instead of me making fun of the way the announcement gives the impression that LANCE WILL BE RACING HIS BIKE IN AUSTRALIA and oh yeah some other people will too, I’m going to consider the kinds of things I will ask Phil and Paul when I talk to them later this week. Cuz, you know, I’m kind of a fan. Even though I tease them a little.

Questions About Commentating

First, I’m very interested in what goes on behind the scenes in the booth when Phil and Paul are watching a bike race. I’d love to ask the following:

  • What are you listening to on your big headphones when commentating?
  • Do you have someone working in the background, collecting stats and interesting tidbits of information for you to relay? Or is that what Google’s for? Or do you actually know all that stuff?
  • I’ve noticed that the Liggett / Sherwen commentating split is about 65% / 35%. Why is that?
  • Do you ever wake up in the middle of the night with a crazy metaphor in your head and say to yourself, “I’ve got to say that tomorrow!”
  • Do you have special hand signals you give to each other to communicate things you don’t want us to hear? Things like, “Please take a turn talking, I am about to have a coughing fit.” Or like “I have nothing at all to say at this moment.” Or “Hey, let me talk, I want to use that crazy metaphor I came up with last night.”
  • Do you have a list of emergency metaphors, colorful adjectives, or very descriptive adverbs you keep on hand, just in case?
  • How boring is it to commentate the long, flat stages where the breakaway rider has a fifteen minute lead? Seriously, on a scale of one to ten. Or maybe we should go to eleven. Or possibly fifteen. Regardless, sometimes the only thing interesting in some of those stages is the fact that you two manage to keep finding something to talk about. And while the rest of us can zoom through at 4x speed, watching for wrecks, you have to watch the whole thing and talk about it. So, anyway: How boring?
  • When you’re sitting in your booth, are you wearing pants?
  • If you were to do the exact same commentary about the exact same sport, but one of you had an Idaho accent and the other of you sounded like you were from the backwoods of Oklahoma, do you think you’d be as popular?
  • Does Bob Roll spit-talk a lot when he gets excited? How about when he’s not excited?
  • Do you have a pronunciation key for cyclists’ names? Why not?

Who’s the Most?

I would like to get Phil and Paul’s take on the people, teams, and moments of cycling who have been superlative at one thing or another.

  • Who’s the most erudite cyclist you’ve ever talked with?
  • Who had / has the ugliest team kit, ever?
  • Who is the class clown of cycling?
  • What was the best stage of the TdF you’ve ever commentated?
  • What was the most awful stage of the TdF you’ve ever commentated?
  • What was the most boring stage of the TdF you’ve ever commentated?
  • Who’s the cyclist you would most like to invite over for a barbecue?
  • Who is the most misunderstood cyclist of all time?
  • Who is the best DS of all time?

Who Would Win?

I think the world would be very interested to know, between Phil and Paul, who would be better at a number of both cycling- and non-cycling-related activities. Which, between the two, would win at:

  • Boxing
  • A stare-down
  • Climbing the Alp d’Huez
  • Yodeling
  • Making sarcastic remarks
  • Arm wresting
  • Pie eating
  • A spelling bee
  • Trash-talking
  • Obscure pop-culture remark-making

Additional Very Important Questions

Of course, not everything I would like to ask them has to do with their commentating style. I’d like to ask them a few “left field” questions, to just kind of mix things up.

  • Do you have a running bet about who will retire first?
  • Does it bother you when you are called “The Siskel and Ebert” of cycle commentating? What? You’ve never been called that before? Well, what if people started calling you that. Then would it bother you?
  • You’ve seen Eddy Merckx race in person. Honestly, does anybody compare?
  • What bikes do you personally ride?
  • Do you ever mountain bike?
  • Paul, does it irk you that everyone says “Phil and Paul,” never “Paul and Phil?”Would it make you happy if I put your name first, say about 35% of the time?
  • What’s your favorite kind of cheese?

Questions About the Suitcase of Courage

Finally, I think I’d like to ask them a lot of questions about the term, “suitcase of courage.” In fact, I think it’d be fun to conduct an interview with them containing nothing but questions centered around this term. For example:

  • When did you first say “suitcase of courage?” What was happening at the moment?
  • When you said “suitcase of courage” for the first time, did you realize it was going to become a catchphrase of sorts? That people like me would say it whenever we try to do impressions of you?
  • Did you borrow, buy, steal or otherwise appropriate the phrase “suitcase of courage” from someone else, like from a manufacturer of very brave luggage? If you bought this phrase, how much did you pay for it? Would you say you’ve gotten good value for your money?
  • Suppose that, instead of “suitcase of courage,” you had said, “satchel of courage” or “bushel basket of courage.” Do you think it would have had the same impact?
  • How about “Container of courage?” That’s nicely alliterative. Do you think that would have been a successful signature phrase?
  • Do either of you own “suitcaseofcourage.com”? Why not?
  • Did you know that “suitcaseofcourage.org” takes you to the Fat Cyclist website? Now that you do know, do you wish you would have trademarked the term? Do you think it was worth the price I paid and time I spent to acquire the domain suitcaseofcourage.org so I could write this joke?
  • What color do you imagine the suitcase of courage would be?

I could go on. You know I could.

At the time I write this, I have no guarantee that I’ll actually get to talk to Phil and / or Paul. After I post this, I suspect my chances will go down considerably. Alas. I shall keep you apprised.

Meanwhile, I would be delighted to have your input into what kind of questions I should ask Paul and Phil, should I get the chance.

PS: Props to dug for helping me come up with a buncha these questions.

PPS: I now have an appointment to talk with Phil (not Paul) Friday at 4:45 MT. I doubt I’ll be able to sleep tonight. Or tomorrow night.


  1. Comment by aussie kev | 01.11.2011 | 11:23 pm

    Aussie kevs Dad (pommie dave) used to race against Phil. my father was a member of Walton cycling and athletic club in the uk (walton c&ac).
    Ask phil if he remembers pommie dave !!!

    its nice to read somthing funny, the floods here are terrible.

    all queenslanders – look out for each other – take care

  2. Comment by Richard | 01.11.2011 | 11:33 pm

    Those poo brown strips in the Tour Peleton I think in ‘10 have to be the worst. Can’t even remember the team they were that bad.

  3. Comment by Ck1 | 01.11.2011 | 11:37 pm

    This is why I come back every day.

  4. Comment by 91Bear | 01.11.2011 | 11:38 pm

    That’s it! I am registering the_elastic_has_snapped.com!

  5. Comment by Karen S | 01.12.2011 | 12:32 am

    I think you and dug have waaaay too much time on your hands.

  6. Comment by Jeremy | 01.12.2011 | 12:50 am

    Ask if he describes friends who divorce as “Oh my…they have become unhitched.” We all know Bradley Wiggans is his favorite rider.

  7. Comment by Skippy | 01.12.2011 | 1:30 am

    @aussie kev , ridden on sundays with Walton guys back in the late 90’s whilst in Wimbledon. Talked to Brian Collier in Brisbane today who had just returned from Nationals in Melb.He is on high ground so no wet feet but friends in sad situation and CNN & BBc World have graphic footage of these floods in areas that Paul & Phil have ridden.
    ASK P & P their first memories of Skippy, Fatty, should fill a book. When we talk of drivers giving cyclists a problem, Paul will tell you that he copped an earful from me on the TDF 1998 for squeezing me out on a corner, he was busy looking at the Fountainbleu Palace as he turned right through me.
    ASK P & P about their sightseeing in places like Avignon on the Dauphine’ Libere.
    Paul is a miner in East Africa when not commentating or twittering so you will glean heaps of info on those subjects. I have a photo with those rogues but not as interesting as those with Lance, Leontin or Longo.
    Thanks to your commenters for their support and comments and anyone supporting a MacMillan Nurses Project Pease let me know details. They provided outstanding care and support to my mother in her last days

  8. Comment by Niall in Brisbane | 01.12.2011 | 5:13 am

    Richard – I think the team was Pooton Servetto?

    I’m looking forward to their responses to all these questions and more!

  9. Comment by Cardiac Kid | 01.12.2011 | 6:35 am

    Great post Fatty,

    I’m surprised there was no reference to the Clean Bottle in any of those questions.

  10. Comment by Mike Roadie | 01.12.2011 | 6:52 am


    Very funny post. Good luck; I really hope you do get some time with them!!!

  11. Comment by NYCCarlos | 01.12.2011 | 7:44 am

    bwahahahaha suitcaseofcourage.org. amazing. I like mikeroadie’s astute observation though that they use “dancing on his pedals” even more.

  12. Comment by patty | 01.12.2011 | 8:30 am

    “Violent effort” is the saying that gets to me – where did they ever come up with that one? Phil and Paul rock!

  13. Comment by RandoBoy | 01.12.2011 | 8:48 am

    http://www.suitcaseofcourage.net is taken, and is kind of interesting. Proving, yet again, that the internet still has untapped potential as a momentous time-suck.

  14. Comment by TimRides | 01.12.2011 | 8:55 am

    Fatty, you cracked me up today! And definitely ask a question about the Clean Bottle.

  15. Comment by Neil | 01.12.2011 | 9:10 am

    Oh man you need to get Phil and Paul to trash talk Bob Roll (I dig all three of them). During the extended coverage of stage 17 of the 2006 Tour where Floyd Landis dominated (hindsight changes everything), Bob Roll indicated they were going to a commercial but Verses didn’t. You could hear Bob blow his nose and talk to someone in the booth as if he thought it was a commercial break. Then he starts mimicking Paul and Phil, like how they would back pedal from comments they made during the previous stage where they predicted Floyd was done. It was hilarious. I sense some rivalry between the three of them.

  16. Comment by Nic Grillo | 01.12.2011 | 9:16 am

    “riding like a pack of scalded cats” always cracks me up.

  17. Comment by Miles Archer | 01.12.2011 | 9:29 am

    Tell them you’re a big fan of recumbents and ask them if they’ve ever ridden one.

    Ask them if they’ve ever seen DZ’s Nuts

  18. Comment by Bryan (not that one) | 01.12.2011 | 9:30 am

    All very good questions, Fatty. Can’t wait for the actual interview!

    On a side note, I watched (for the first time) The Devil Wears Prada last night. You did a great job playing Nigel.

  19. Comment by HeidiR | 01.12.2011 | 9:51 am

    Nearly spit coffee all over my computer when I got to “When you’re sitting in your booth, are you wearing pants?” I read Dug’s blog regularly, too, and somehow I’m not surprised that he had input on some of the questions. You guys are awesome!

  20. Comment by SuperA | 01.12.2011 | 9:58 am

    If Phil or Paul actually were from Idaho and Oklahoma, do you think they would know what ‘erudite’ means and be able to answer your question?

  21. Comment by Steve | 01.12.2011 | 10:00 am

    Great post! This is my first. Thanks for making me laugh and all the work you’ve done to fight cancer.

    How about “How many times during a broadcast do they wish could push Craig Hummer off a cliff during a mountain stage?”

    Keep up the good work!

  22. Comment by Maile in FL | 01.12.2011 | 10:06 am

    I’m pretty sure the suitcase of courage is flourescent safety orange, but you can go ahead and ask him anyway .

  23. Comment by Demonic1 | 01.12.2011 | 10:07 am

    So why did you move to MarsEdit fom Ecto?
    Perhaps a new sponsorship deal?
    Did suitcaseofcourage.org require the move as part of their hiring policy?

  24. Comment by Skippy | 01.12.2011 | 10:38 am

    Thanks for bringing “dug” to my attention. As a “skinner” i am envious of their backcountry access, having to go out solo i thick to the peopled routes in the Zillertal and at the moment the piste bashers are making the slopes bullet proof so the skins do not grip, luckily i have been able to use the freezing roads the past ten days. Agree with @heidiR “dug ” is regular reading on my blog roll.

  25. Comment by MSB | 01.12.2011 | 10:48 am

    I’m hooked on your blog.

  26. Comment by ChrisD | 01.12.2011 | 10:53 am

    You could, possibly, ask some questions about the TDU? Or is that crazy talk?


  27. Comment by KanyonKris | 01.12.2011 | 11:02 am

    So glad this was a serious post and not that jokey one you had planned. Good stuff.

  28. Comment by Sansauto | 01.12.2011 | 11:03 am

    Each at their prime, who would win in a Tour de France containing Armstrong, Indurain, and Merckx?

  29. Comment by jodie_a | 01.12.2011 | 11:05 am

    If you haven’t read it yet, you should read the blog dug wrote yesterday. Fatty, Dug, and KanyonKris are on my daily blog reading list. All three of you make me fall over laughing at my desk on a regular basis. Does anyone miss Al Trautwig? I heard him announcing hockey from New York last night and was reminded how much less he annoys me than Craig Hummer does. But maybe it’s just me.

  30. Comment by Laurie | 01.12.2011 | 11:21 am

    I hope that you get to ask every single question!!

  31. Comment by Nick | 01.12.2011 | 11:22 am

    Please ask Phil why his voice is in my head, mocking me, whenever I feel less than strong on the bike. “The elastic has snapped. He is pedaling backwards now. He will have to pull something very special out of the suitcase of courage if he wants to survive the day.”

  32. Comment by Blue Girl | 01.12.2011 | 11:26 am

    this was tweeted to Phil: ‘Suitcase of Courage’ is a Sherwenism, not a Liggettism. Right, @PaulSherwen, @PhilLiggett? Phil reaponded: @PaulSherwen Right!!

  33. Comment by Chris | 01.12.2011 | 11:27 am

    Incredibly funny post. In another life we may have been good friends. I live vicariously through your experiences as the everyday person who has cool opportunities. Brilliant stuff. Your mix of funny and fighting cancer is perfect. If you’re looking for a Canadian (dual citizen) correspondant for cancer-killing activities let me know.

  34. Comment by briebecca | 01.12.2011 | 11:43 am

    I think this could potentially be a book in the making. Every cycling fan just loves Paul and Phil and to have an equally demented fan ask all kinds of questions of them would be a real treat. There are so many! So.. ask them about doing a book project- sort of an insanely long interview that spans over 100 pages.. Doante 99% of the proceeds to charities of their choice.

  35. Comment by Notbob | 01.12.2011 | 11:51 am

    “Who’s the cyclist you would most like to invite over for a barbecue?”

    The only acceptable answer to this question is Jens Voigt.

  36. Comment by mark | 01.12.2011 | 11:54 am

    Sansauto: Coppi would win. But you didn’t include Coppi (likely because Phil and Paul weren’t covering the TdF when he raced). So of the list you made, Merckx. But that’s assuming “in their prime” means a non-EPO-enhanced state. If EPO is on the table, I’d go with Armstrong, because Merckx raced before EPO was invented.

    Elden: it took me a second to figure out what a SD was. Then I realized you had anglicized DS.

  37. Comment by Obstinate Roadie | 01.12.2011 | 11:57 am

    I’m just wondering what an “SD” is.

  38. Comment by Donna | 01.12.2011 | 11:59 am

    Another great post Fatty, one of my favorite Phil&Paul-isms is……and they’re turning their pedals in anger…that one makes me giggle…I tried to turn my pedals in anger once….and damn near threw myself into the ditch….OMG….Keep on fighting the good fight Fatty

  39. Comment by BamaJim | 01.12.2011 | 12:01 pm

    Funny. Those guys are the best. The phrase that sticks with me is “and the first pedal has been turned in anger”

  40. Comment by wishiwasmerckx | 01.12.2011 | 12:16 pm

    I can answer the “pants in the booth” question, for I have seen the photos. They wear proper shirts, ties and jackets from the waist up, but underneath the desk, they are wearing shorts and sneakers.

  41. Comment by jonw9 | 01.12.2011 | 12:29 pm

    Q: What color do you imagine the suitcase of courage would be?
    A: Pink! Next question…

  42. Comment by Eric L | 01.12.2011 | 12:31 pm

    Hilarious post. any of those questions would be golden. I’d ask them if it’s difficult to keep their “language” under control when fans to epic stupid things like cross in front of riders or let their dog crash a rider.

    Fatty, I’d pre-order your book right now.

    So exciting to see a new season of racing getting started and can’t wait for this year’s 100 MON.

  43. Comment by roan | 01.12.2011 | 12:51 pm

    Great post. Fatty good that you ask about the special hand signals early. Follow that with “What type of signal should I (Fatty) use during this interview to indicate my latest witty metaphor ?”
    Be sure to tell them they can use anything you say as fodder…er…filler Down Under.
    Just read dug’s post…my dim light bulb just came on…try to get Paul & Phil(start of the 35%) to do commentary on the next Ride Around White Rim…pun intended dug. Fatty, you could compete and carry your musette bag of DZ Nuts for when others riders start “Dancing on the Pedals”.
    Be sure to tell Paul & Phil they are invited to the Brats and Pabst too.

  44. Comment by Squirrelhead | 01.12.2011 | 12:54 pm

    Oh man that cracked me up! I can’t wait to see what comes out of the interview. Ask Phil why Paul thinks he is too good to talk to you.

  45. Comment by Haven (KT) | 01.12.2011 | 1:00 pm

    I love those guys, and can’t wait to read your post wherein you detail your interview.

    All those questions are, of course, good ones, ones that have bugged many of us during the hours of fast-forwarding through boring stages. How do they know the names and histories of all those fantastic chateaus along the way? Which elastic, exactly, has snapped?

  46. Comment by debbie zuckerman | 01.12.2011 | 1:08 pm

    Phil is the easiest person to talk too. He makes you feel comfortable and at ease. He has the most entertaining, funny stories, they are endless. I have rode with him twice in Tremblant and met up with him in Whistler during the olympics. Please give him a hug…or not. Enjoy and have fun.

  47. Comment by Yer Highness | 01.12.2011 | 1:30 pm

    Oklahoma doesn’t have any back woods. They barely have trees. Sorry.

  48. Comment by Scott R | 01.12.2011 | 2:29 pm

    Best domain squatting example I’ve seen in a while, Fatty :-)

  49. Comment by Weiland | 01.12.2011 | 2:30 pm

    I’ve lost the keys to my suitcase of courage, can you ask them where I can get replacement keys.

    FYI On Southwest Airlines up to 2 suitcases of courage fly free!

  50. Comment by bikemike | 01.12.2011 | 3:01 pm

    i would ask if they could each (anonymously) put a name in a hat on which one had the hottest wife.

  51. Comment by Clydesteve | 01.12.2011 | 4:22 pm

    Now you’re cooking. Nice job with
    http://www.suitcaseofcourage.org BTW.

  52. Comment by Shelley | 01.12.2011 | 4:38 pm

    Okay, seriously, this post made me laugh out loud. Just thought you’d like to know that.

    Oh, and love the suitcaseofcourage.org thing. Priceless.

  53. Comment by mateo | 01.12.2011 | 4:40 pm

    Fatty, your first question will have to mention “Lance Armstrong”, then every third question will have to be about “Lance Armstrong”, this is specifically written in Phil’s contract.

    Please ask him what steps are involved when you are “Dancing on the Pedals”…is it a waltz, a boogie, a rumba? I need to know!

  54. Comment by Ray | 01.12.2011 | 4:53 pm

    Paul just tweeted about your upcoming interview, so I would say your chances of getting it are greatly improved.

  55. Comment by Richard | 01.12.2011 | 6:39 pm

    Maybe they would like to be the anouncers for this years 100 miles to nowhere ride! Let’s see them keep up an interesting and vibrant conversation then.

  56. Comment by Eric | 01.12.2011 | 6:56 pm

    I didn’t realize it until I read this, but I wanna know the same stuff.

  57. Comment by Spiff | 01.12.2011 | 7:01 pm

    suitcaseofcourage.org is my new favourite website!

    It is a rarely studied law of quantum humour that when the effort put into a joke, exceeds the funniness of said joke, the joke becomes even funnier than the effort put into it.

  58. Comment by Cyclin' Missy | 01.12.2011 | 7:39 pm

    Soooooo cool! I can’t wait to hear all about it. Have fun!

  59. Comment by Gordon In Melb, Australia | 01.12.2011 | 7:53 pm

    I can’t make it to the TDU this year but could you ask them that if they are in Melbourne I would “utterly and completely” like to have them over for a meal at our house.

  60. Comment by Angela | 01.12.2011 | 9:05 pm

    For what it’s worth, I have to dig into my suitcase of courage every time I hop on my bike, and my brain seems to always have to combat the phrase “legs to engine room, I need more power.” Also, I completely and utterly don’t get the clean bottle.

    Have fun interviewing legends!

  61. Comment by Sylvia | 01.13.2011 | 12:19 am

    “OLN Fires Phil Liggett” was my introduction to your blog, and I’m sure that’s the case for many other people as well. Brilliant. Funny too. Use your superpowers and the interview will be yours. I can’t wait. If you don’t get it, just pretend you did and don’t tell anyone…

  62. Comment by okiecalvin | 01.13.2011 | 1:36 am

    Ahem, I’m from Oklahoma.

    We have trees, they’re plastered all over the campuses of our many religious colleges that are loaded with erudite professors.

    If you would’ve said Texas now that would’ve been funny!

    Damn Mormons and their elastics…

  63. Comment by Doug (Way upstate NY) | 01.13.2011 | 10:26 am

    Fatty never realized how ginormous your head is. It would be scary to have you behind me like you were behind Phil and Paul in the picture…..Glad you are not going to interview me!

  64. Comment by Bill H-D | 01.13.2011 | 10:40 am

    Two words: traffic furniture.

  65. Comment by Clydesteve | 01.13.2011 | 11:20 am

    @Spiff – quantum humor – I like it!

  66. Comment by friend of Philly Jen | 01.13.2011 | 11:21 am

    Ask if they can arrange a photo shoot with Philly Jen sandwiched between Chavanel and Boonen.

  67. Comment by Clydesteve | 01.13.2011 | 11:22 am

    To all you ozzies – ‘TDU’ in the U.S. Submarine Navy is short for Trash Disposal Unit. No offence, BTW – I am just saying that the abbreviation threw me for a loop there for a minute.

  68. Comment by Roses | 01.13.2011 | 12:59 pm

    Are they disappointed that they’ve never been asked to do commentary for the Tour De Donut? What is their dream race to do commentary?

    Did you see that Noodle published a book of pictures of Precious across America?

  69. Comment by davidh-marin,ca | 01.13.2011 | 3:06 pm

    Can we get Phil and Paul at Levis Gran Fondo? 4 days till registration, I encourage all Fatties to mark their calendar. Will the “awesome quads” himself be riding, let’s hope so. Read Gran Fondo Newsletter here: http://us1.campaign-archive.com/?u=78da6f05e57710ca3b63648da&id=a055dfa0cd&e=4c89d1d598
    And let’s find out where P & P are in October.

  70. Comment by ChrisD | 01.13.2011 | 3:25 pm

    Ask this: “Can I be a special guest commentator at this year’s TDF?”

  71. Comment by TimD | 01.13.2011 | 3:35 pm

    Funny you should mention accents and pronunciations. As him why, as a native of Bebbington, he pronounces Lance like Laaarrrnce? He should sound more like the Beatles rather than the Queen.

    Also as former president, how does he stand on the great Charitable status referendum

  72. Comment by kentucky joe | 01.13.2011 | 4:30 pm

    absolute classic, can’t wait for the interview!

  73. Comment by Gordon In Melb, Australia | 01.13.2011 | 7:59 pm

    Hey Clydesteve why didn’t you tell me ozzie osbourne was racing the TDU, I might have made the trip just for a laugh.

  74. Comment by Zed | 01.13.2011 | 10:03 pm

    “Who is the class clown of cycling?”

    C’mon, Fatty, this one’s OBVIOUSLY Dave Zabriskie … at least until you make into the pro peloton.

  75. Comment by Boz | 01.15.2011 | 12:51 pm

    I dug deep into my Suitcase of Courage, only to find a bauette and some slightly stinky cheese. Note to self: don’t store cheese w/ unwashed bibs.

  76. Comment by Redbull | 01.17.2011 | 6:43 am

    Hey Fatty – I’m afraid Lance is yesterdays news

    The hot young rider down under at the moment is Angel Madrazo – The Sparrow of Canzona



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