Floyd and Kimmage
Before I (eventually, as usual) ease into today’s topic — The interview Paul Kimmage conducted with Floyd Landis in NY Velocity — I’d like to dive into caveat-land for a moment. Specifically, I’m not well. Nothing big, just a sore throat that’s probably evolving into a cold. But I’ve been dealing with sick kid issues — some short term stuff, some long-term stuff — and that, compounded with a coughing jag that lasted for a big chunk of the night has left me a little bit exhausted.
So the hilarity quotient — at least the intentional hilarity quotient — of this post might be a tad low.
Or maybe it wouldn’t have been all that funny anyway.
The Joke That Didn’t Happen
My original plan for today’s post was to do an absurd “Gems from the Kimmage / Landis” interview. My premise was going to be along the lines of “this interview is so impossibly long that there’s no way people are actually reading it in its entirety, so I took one for the team and read the whole thing, and here are the amazing things I’ve uncovered.”
And then I would go on to reveal that deep within the interview are things like:
- A recipe for a really good Southwestern grilled shrimp marinade
- Winning lottery numbers
- The GPS coordinates for Elvis’ current residence
- An elegant, face-palmingly-simple, common-sense solution to Fermat’s Last Theorem.
As “research” for my post, I decided that I’d better go ahead and read the whole interview, published in NY Velocity.
Way before I finished reading it, I decided it wasn’t something I wanted to joke about.
Addle-Brained Observations
Now that I’ve read the whole interview, I kinda think maybe what I should do is go back and read it again, this time liveblogging the thing. And I don’t mean a jokey liveblog, either. I mean that as I (re)read it, I should detail what I think of the question and answer.
I dunno, maybe I’ll do that sometime next week, when I feel up to it.
For right now, though, I’m just going to give a few general impressions, and then open up comments for the Vitriol Squad to talk about how this interview proves for sure that Lance Armstrong doped.
- Floyd is messed up. He still hasn’t worked through the embarrassment, humiliation, and loss he’s suffered for the past several years. No matter whether you believe or doubt everything he says, I’m pretty sure you’ll agree with the conclusion that this is a guy who is hurting pretty badly inside, and is nowhere near the end of the tunnel.
- Floyd has twisted logic. Floyd says that if given the chance to do everything over, “I would do everything the same and I would just admit it, afterwards.” And yet he is trying to position himself in an anti-doping stance, so that others won’t have to go through what he has gone through. His justification of what he claims to have done is in direct conflict with his mission to rid the world of this doping problem. I don’t honestly think he sees the paradox, which goes back to my first observation.
- Floyd still thinks he was in the right. The most amazing thing about this interview is that Floyd felt he was genuinely ill-used by the system. That even though he was a doper, and was caught for doping, he got bad treatment, because the lab caught him for the wrong offense. Kind of like getting mad at cops for arresting you for having a corpse in the trunk of your car (which you may or may not have put there) when you expected them to arrest you for the suitcase full of counterfit bills hidden in your apartment.
- Floyd has a credibility problem. With me, anyway. I was one of the guys who believed Tyler Hamilton. I was one of the guys who believed Floyd. I am one of the guys who believes Lance. This isn’t just obstinate naivete, this is part of my life philosophy: expect that people are good and honest. Does this mean that sometimes I am taken advantage of? Yes, but not as often as you might expect. Once, however, Floyd admitted that he had lied, a lot, even a guy like me has to doubt anything and everything he says. He tricked me once for motives that I didn’t guess at; how can I possibly have any confidence he’s not tricking me again, for motives I once again am not guessing at?
- Kimmage does not act like a reporter. I’m no journalist. You can tell from my interview with Phil Liggett that I’m just a cycling fan with a blog, and I don’t even pretend to try to be impartial. But Paul Kimmage’s interview with Landis seemed — even to me — remarkably un-reporter-like. Especially toward the end, where in email exchanges he starts telling Floyd how personally involved he is, and begins giving Landis career- and life-affecting counsel. I’m glad that Kimmage is at least open about his bias (as opposed to trying to camouflage it), but there’s no way to read this as objective, impartial, multiple-sourced journalism. It’s more like two friends, reinforcing their shared worldview to each other, over beers.
You know what? On second thought, I don’t think I’ll liveblog the interview. Like a lot of pro cycling news these days, it’s just too depressing.
Luckily for us, all of that nonsense has nothing to do with the reason we love riding.
PS: I’ll be back Monday.
Comment by davidh-marin,ca | 02.9.2011 | 1:00 pm
Fatty
The most important thing is “…I’m a cycling fan with a blog”, that does great things for others, and let’s us come along for the ride. Keep to your philosophy and we will all be better for it.
Comment by Jim | 02.9.2011 | 1:12 pm
I’ll tell you guys the same thing I tell my local crew. Cycling is the folks I’m friends with who I ride and race with with, who I know and respect on a personal level. *That* is the sport. These guys who do pro stuff – they ride bikes but it’s not what I consider cycling. Drug fueled gladiator games on bikes, maybe. But not cycling.
Comment by Alan | 02.9.2011 | 1:24 pm
Crazy. As I type, I’m in the middle of reading the Landis interview and thought to myself “I wonder what Fat Cyclist has to say about this.” and… Dang. Crazy!
And yeah, I mean, I’m going to have to put it aside until later or tomorrow or something because I can’t just sit at work all day and read it.
Comment by Rob M | 02.9.2011 | 1:27 pm
I haven’t read the interview so I’m just going by the info in this post.
“I would do everything the same…”
Floyd gave one of the finest performances in cycling history at that stage in the TdF where he was later charged with using a small amount of synthetic testosterone. Experts have said the small amount would not have significantly, if at all, improved his performance.
Floyd was more than capable of his heroic performance and, even if he would do everything the same, I wish he would have changed just one thing.
Comment by Scott R | 02.9.2011 | 1:37 pm
Feel better, Fatty.
Comment by Dan | 02.9.2011 | 1:38 pm
@Rob M,
The only problem with your statement is the fact that Landis was a longtime doper, so even if he wasn’t taking testosterone on the day of the race we cannot conclude that he was ever strong enough to do that stage on his own. The effects of doping last much longer than the day of use (hence the out-of-competition drug tests). For me, that’s why doping really cheapens pro cycling. We have no idea if any of the legendary performances were “real”; even if they were clean on the day of the race that doesn’t necessarily mean they weren’t enhanced.
Comment by pablo | 02.9.2011 | 1:44 pm
A compelling discussion of this topic (pre-Kimmage interview) by Freakonomics: http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/07/06/doping-in-the-tour-de-france/
It will be interesting to see the results of Levitt’s academic analysis into allegations of doping in the sport.
Comment by Jenni | 02.9.2011 | 1:51 pm
I believed Floyd. I bought his book. I met him in person and looked in his eyes and took him at his word- most people I know who went (and paid) to hear him speak became believers.
It won’t stop me from believing the best in people, ever. I would like a refund on my book and worthless signature. I’m glad I didn’t ask for the, “Thanks for all the advice” quote I was planning.
Comment by Grizzly Adam | 02.9.2011 | 2:08 pm
Jennl – that signature isn’t worthless.
I like Floyd. for the spectacle, for the headline grabbing statements, and (I hope) for the good that will eventually cascade from his coming clean. If that is indeed what he is doing.
I’ve think Floyd was adamant in his innocence because he expected the Lance Armstrong treatment – that is, his failed tests, accusers, detractors would be swept away and dismissed without acknowledgment. Exactly what the LA camp is doing to Floyd right now. But, and despite Floyd’s past history, I am not sure what he is saying today can be so quickly waved off as crazy or nonsensical.
If he is lying now, why?
It is a sad story. I was always rooting for Floyd. His own self-destruction is depressing. His career is ruined, but all cycling careers come to an end. His life is ruined, or at least in tatters now. That’s the tragedy.
Comment by Cannonball | 02.9.2011 | 2:26 pm
Anything that Landis says is horse$h|+. Even his horse$h|+ is horse$h|+. The only reason he even keeps popping up in the cycling press is because the press knows he is worth a headline or byline; and Landis knows the publicity is potentially worth money to him. He is a disgraced athlete looking to take anyone down, innocent or not, who he can target and make money at doing so. Paul Kimmage is just another media flak who has the same scruples as Floyd-the-Fake: somewhere south of zero.
Comment by Grizzly Adam | 02.9.2011 | 2:36 pm
The take home point of the interview for me (and I skimmed most of the non-cycling stuff) was the reason why Floyd said he’d do it all again exactly the same: “I wouldn’t have missed [the tour]“. He had a choice. Race the TdF, or race clean. He chose the TdF. And frankly, I can’t blame him for making the choice he did. Was it the wrong choice? Yeah, I guess it was. But looking back, the experience of racing in several TdF’s was worth the ethical and legal morass he waded into.
It’s a terrible choice. And one that (every?) up and coming riders are probably still being saddled with.
And I don’t think Floyd sounded messed up in this interview. On the contrary, I think he sounded more sure of himself, more at ease, then he has since 2006. Of course, it’s text, and so I am projecting my own tone onto his words.
Dude, you’re just sore because I lied to you about the spatula. – FC
Comment by Grizzly Adam | 02.9.2011 | 2:38 pm
Cannonball, I’m glad to see that the Vitriol Squad Fatty predicted would show up has arrived. Carry on.
Comment by Skippy | 02.9.2011 | 2:38 pm
Fatty get well! Reading the interview again will not help ! Like others i was expecting your Hilarious “sendup ”
of this piece of crap .
Ridden on “rest days” with him in Bordeaux when i pulled Salvodelli’s leg about the “Italian Diving Team” putting the Aussies out of the comp. therefore OZ won the World Cup.
Cyclocosm.com did this the other day and there are so many longwinded comments that you would need to speed read for a week to follow the whole story.
Not yet checked Cynews Forum(CNF) but that would probably take a month to read thru.
Long & short is that there was a “Planet Armstrong” which was on Eurosport, now flandis is looking to create a “gospel according to “Saint Flandis” !
Flandis spent a few bucks to start a campaign that gets him 10% of recovered Federal Funds, that an investigation by Federal agencies is now under way makes him “newsworthy” DOES NOT MAKE HIM TRUTHFUL HOWEVER !
Throw mud at the wall and some will stick ! Lance has little to worry about since he still has to be brought into a Court of Law, The court of “public opinion” has shifted a little but not to the extent that an out & out LIAR is given more credit than a guy who has raised $US325m and growing.
Blogged Lance as “Saint or Sinner ” and the good he has done far outweights the slanders tossed in his direction.
No one is perfect and Mc Queasy of UCIless and his “radio ban “stunt & “Bike Frame money spinning scheme” is another thorn in the side of the ordinary cycle sport enthusiast.
Today at the “Tour de Med” i watched another racer repeat Eric Zabel’s San Remo finish line judgement error, although i was happy to see Thommo win !
Keep up the Good WorK for Cancer Victims because regardless of the outcomes , those folk deserve all the help they can receive whether from you or Lance !
Comment by AngieG | 02.9.2011 | 2:40 pm
@Cannonball- AMEN!!!
Maybe the UCI/WADA can develop a Floyd Landis stamp of approval. All pro cyclists are dopers unless they pay a fee (I mean nothing is free right) and get approved thru the UCI/WADA/Landis approval process. Of course approval would come with a really cool patch for their kit identifying them and being approved.
The guy is a total nut!
Comment by Steve | 02.9.2011 | 2:47 pm
The interview was definitely interesting to read. But I’m with you, Fatty–Floyd lied before, so it’s pretty hard to know how much to believe now.
Comment by MattC | 02.9.2011 | 3:17 pm
I have to say that I’m torn on what/how to believe. I too believed emphatically in Floyd. I also have an autographed copy of his book (which I drove for HOURS to get), AND an autographed FFF T-shirt, and I donated $ to his fund. HOWEVER. I realize that the interview left lots to be desired (as in questions that needed to be asked).
But after reading the entire thing (over a course of days) I came to one conclusion: he is human. He had dreams that he worked very hard for. He got to ‘the show’ and had to make some very serious choices. Things you can’t ‘un-do’ later in the game. He did what he had to do (if you believe his answers) to maintain his seat in the big game. He did what everybody else was doing. And he got caught. Quite honestly, I beleive that part (when he claims he was not using T). I followed the Malibu Tribunal (I mean arbitration) minute by minute. I thought he and his team not only showed a very reasonable doubt, I thought they pretty much proved their (WADA/LNDD) case was total crap and the LNDD was pretty shoddy in how they do business. I expected the arbitrators decision to go against him, as it was 2 to 1 from the onset. However I fully expected the CAS to throw it out.
Where am I going with all this? I don’t know. I HATED him when he came out last May and FINALLY admitted his complicity, and the full scope of his lies. I’m past that now. He’s a human being who made mistakes, and who among us is perfect? I’m not (albiet pretty dang close…..GRIN!)
I hope he can figure out where to go in life now that he is out of the game forever…he’s paid a pretty high price. And hopefully he can find whatever peace he can. Me, I’m just gonna ride my bikes, and enjoy watching the Pro’s race, whether they are juiced or not. It’s OPEN class. Nobody wants to see guys like me racing up mountains. I’m putting my rose-colored-glasses back on, and turning them up to HIGH. Surely there is no doping left in Pro cycling.
Comment by fult23 | 02.9.2011 | 3:55 pm
Fatty,
I must concur with DavidH, you are much more than a fan with a blog!
Doping in sports is our own fault! We want to see super human feats of athletic prowess, and we pay top dollar to get it. Corporations exploit our own hunger for the extreme, and sports promote excellence at any cost, and we eat it up! Then when we come to find out that the achievements are not pure, we are actually surprised! That was never part of the unspoken contract. We wanted excellence and that is exactly what we got. It just so happens that to achieve at these kinds of levels, they have to cheat to do it.
Comment by Morry | 02.9.2011 | 4:26 pm
Riding a Bike is pure a Joy as one can experience.
I started to ride a bike in europe when i was 3 years old. I have never stopped riding. I am now near 70… still riding. And also occasionally ride with the older ‘guys’ .. in their 80s.
Once the big $$ hit pro-cycling, I stopped believing in heros. The Pros will have to clean up their own house. But quite frankly i don’t a give a damn what they do.
Just ride til you drop. forget the rest…
I think your POV (not giving a damn what they do) is becoming more and more common. I’m not there yet, but I can imagine that day coming. – FC
Comment by Shelley | 02.9.2011 | 4:41 pm
Get well soon, Fatty…
Comment by Rich | 02.9.2011 | 5:04 pm
I don’t buy the logic, “he lied once, so I can’t trust anything he says”… If someone lies once, admits the mistake, and loses everything he has in an attempt to stop the negative effects the lie has caused others (even if the truth hurts some who are still perpetuating the lie), perhaps he at least deserves a fair hearing. The truth is that his allegations aren’t baseless – I am still haunted by Lance’s interviews a few years ago at the Tour, before many of his competitors were caught doping; “there are no secrets…” he kept saying, over and over again… Really? Saying this doesn’t make me part of the vitriol squad – just a normal guy trying to seperate truth from illusion in a sport that I love and yet is continually torn apart (at the professional level) because of the same destructive problems. At the end of the day I have to remember that those people on bikes are still people, and that makes them valuable, and I don’t expect anyone to have to inject anything in order to be competitive in their chosen field. Regardless, I will still ride my bike, and keep recruiting others to ride with me…
Absolutely you’re not part of the Vitriol Squad. You’re a guy with a well-reasoned, sincere POV. I love disagreements when done civilly, and you (and Grizzly Adam) are showing exactly how to disagree with class. Thanks.
I agree with you by the way, that if someone lies once and admits their mistake that they deserve almost as much credit as someone who has never lied at all. But Floyd has lied once. He has lied a near infinite number of times. He wrote a book made up of lies. He asked people to pay to support him in his lies. He mounted a huge defense consisting of an untold number of lies, and his story continues to shift and evolve. At this point, he has lied often enough — while also sometimes telling the truth enough — that it is impossible for me to tell whether any given statement of his is true.
And I totally agree with you about the important thing being about riding and recruiting others to ride.
Thanks for keeping it calm and thoughtful!
- FC
Comment by MB | 02.9.2011 | 5:24 pm
well well well,
I haven’t finished reading the interview yet but I must say that I BELIEVE IN LANDIS.
After finally manage to get out of the system and the peer pressure involved (just look now at that poor sad Ricco), he’s finally telling what is really going on.
I say: thank you Mr. Landis!
Comment by Conor McHugh | 02.9.2011 | 5:58 pm
‘Luckily for us, all of that nonsense has nothing to do with the reason we love riding.’
I think, over the next 18 months or so, as Mr. Novitsky’s investigation worms its way through the ranks of American pro-cycling, a lot of really big names are going to revealed to be less than heroic and brilliant as we’ve been led to believe
That’s why the above quote is gonna be the thing that gets us all through…
And for that, thanks Fatty.
Comment by George | 02.9.2011 | 6:07 pm
Fatty – I love your blog but this is just, honestly, weak.
Kimmage not a journalist? That’s a terrible defence. You don’t believe Floyd doped because his interviewer was bad? I expect better from you.
Floyd has a credibility problem? Sure. But you believed in him until he said something you don’t like, and now he has a credibility problem? And you think he’s confused?
This article reinforces the old adage about doping – you believe what you want and nothing will shift that. You don’t believe Lance doped, therefore Floyd has to be wrong. I believe he did, therefore Floyd is right (eventually!)
Disappointingly, you can’t see beyond this. You have trotted out an article that conforms to the rule. I expected better.
Don’t get me wrong – I love your writing. I don’t read it, I consume it. Keep it up. But please admit your blinkers on this issue, rather than trying to justify them. Your honesty demands no less.
OK, I’ve got to respond to this one. First, my problem with the interview was compounded — not created — by the reporting. When the interviewer is obviously sympathetic to the interviewee, the whole thing becomes suspect. But that’s not my main problem.
As far as “believing Floyd until he said something [I] don’t like,” that’s simply incorrect. I believed Floyd until he said that he had been lying to all of us for years and years. Once someone says that they have been lying to you — endlessly and without remorse — for motives they have not revealed (until now), I’ve got to suspect that person could be lying to me again, once again for motives they choose not to reveal. Maybe everything he’s saying is true. Maybe 2/3 of it is. Maybe 1/3 of it is true. But there’s no way to tell, and I can’t think of why I should once again trust this person.
I don’t think I cannot be swayed. I have been shifted from strongly-held beliefs before. But an interview with an unreliable witness, as told by a clearly-biased interviewer, is not the way to do it.
- FC
Comment by LC | 02.9.2011 | 6:24 pm
I’m with George on this and I have been reading your blog since the very beginning, long before Twin Six and the cosying up with Bruyneel and Co. I think you have invested too much of yourself into LIVESTRONG and Planet Lance over the past number of difficult years to now admit (publicly at least), that you were taken for a ride (pun intended). Lately, when you comment on the pro scene, you are just digging yourself into a bigger and bigger hole that will prove difficult to get out of when the reality of the situation finally dawns.
I have in fact invested a lot of time in LiveStrong, though this notion that I am somehow Lance’s special pal is simply not true. I have met Lance at one LiveStrong event, because Team Fatty raised a ton of money for the fight against cancer. I met him another time at the Team Radioshack training camp, because Team Fatty raised a ton of money for the fight against cancer and for World Bicycle Relief. In total, I have spent ~10 minutes with him, about seven minutes of which he spent talking about BikeSnobNYC.
We have never exchanged email or a phone call; I don’t even know what his email address or phone number are. He does not follow me on Twitter. We are not Facebook friends. The year he raced Leadville, I did not see or talk with him for even a second.
What am I saying? This: we see each other when the situation calls for it. I don’t presume that he is innocent because we are friends; we’re not. I presume he is innocent because I presume everyone is innocent unless there is hard proof otherwise.
If it turned out that there’s hard evidence Lance had been doping, what would I do differently? Nothing. LiveStrong would remain a worthy charity; my support of it doesn’t hinge on Lance Armstrong. My support of it hinges on the good people I’ve met and worked with there, the good work I’ve seen them do. I’d still support it.
As far as how I’ll feel “when the reality of the situation finally dawns,” it must be awesome for you to have a perfect understanding of the world and its future. Got any stock tips for me?
- FC
Comment by Mike | 02.9.2011 | 7:05 pm
The Kimmage/Landis interview was 7 hours long. Landis has no credibility at this point and doesn’t have 7 hours worth of information to share. See my perspective on the interview at http://bicyclespokesman.com/cycling-suffering-and-the-floyd-landis-interview/
Comment by Lime Crush | 02.9.2011 | 7:18 pm
They’re calling that “new journalism.” It’s the same phenomenon that brought us that brilliant, strike that, foolishly irresponsible interview with General McChrystal earlier this year. Evidently being impartial is no longer a requirement for journalism. Just ask Jon Krakauer.
But I’ll definitely agree with point #1, and I think the same could be said about Tyler Hamilton. I honestly wonder what that guy’s up to now. He and Floyd both got humiliated, dethroned and divorced. (I s’pose the difference is that I didn’t really like Floyd before he got caught.) If I met Tyler today, I’d still pose for a picture with the guy and badger him with questions. And I wouldn’t care how many folks chided me for it after the fact.
I think some of the commenters here are forgetting that you met Floyd personally during the time he was denying. It’s got to be different when you know he lied to your face.
Comment by Paul B in Tennessee | 02.9.2011 | 7:49 pm
Time is a great magnifying lens to look back through. I believed Landis then, I tend to believe him now.
Stepping onto the podium must be a powerful experience, enough to make some men risk their lives beyond the normal risks taken on the bicycle.
After the recent experience of Ricco, I wonder how many pro’s have double checked, or just chucked, the contents of their refrigerators.
If the system is as dirty as Landis makes it out to be, the riders, and only the riders, should be given blanket immunity for their testimony, for a limited period of time, clean this mess up, and then start dealing life bans for rule infractions.
my 2 cents.
Comment by dpcowboy | 02.9.2011 | 8:14 pm
Jim has it pretty darn close in the 2nd comment.
I loved the racing part of the sport since I got my first license in 1969; I was 15 and just full of piss and vinegar. I loved reading old copies of ICS and talking to demi-gods like Merckx and riding against Neel and the Stetinas and LeMond and all of those guys. But this sport has just circled the drain for too long. I quit active racing back in ‘88, after seeing (yes, my own two eyes) all sorts of needles and ‘use’ in Belgium, for even the local kermesses. About two years ago (or so), the switch just went “off” for me. I was trying to hold on, still go to races or race the Masters stuff, of the occasional TT, or read the news, or watch Versus or the Eurofeed, but it all is just so much Pro Wrestling now…like Jim said, “Drug fueled gladiator games”. But there is a silver lining…the bike is fun for me again now, (and I usually ride alone), and I get a chuckle out of those who drink the Kool-aid, still believing that these road gods are clean.
Comment by fatgirl | 02.9.2011 | 8:20 pm
What does it say about you that you absolutely refuse to even consider that it all might be a fraud?
Comment by Race Radio | 02.9.2011 | 8:33 pm
Good thing Floyd is not the only person talking to the Feds. What happens when multiple former teammates and staff talk to the Feds and confirm Floyd’s story? What happens when the truth of what Livestrong funds are used for is exposed?
Considering that we already know that millions of $$$ are used for his private jet, to advertise his For-Profit Website and for legal fees maybe some will continue to believe the myth…but I doubt it
Let’s just suppose for a moment you’re right. What happens is I get bummed out for about a day, then start focusing more on the Huntsman Cancer Institute for my fundraising efforts. – FC
Comment by bikemike | 02.9.2011 | 8:41 pm
in the end, it is about the bike. just think how freakishly funny a (bike) race would look without the bike. just a bunch of skinny men chasing each other around in spandex while wearing funny shoes. ( i could insert and analogy to a weekend in key west here but i won’t.) riders come and go, the bike is there year after year and is what makes racing beautiful. pick your favorite carbon missile and enjoy the view.
Comment by roan | 02.9.2011 | 9:56 pm
Ahemmm I believed in Floyd, bought & read his book, still believed…then May 2010 popped up on the calendar, that hurt me. Whatever Floyd does now with his life I hope he can find some peace, dang maybe even go on a bike ride and no one knows him. Then he is doing what most of us have found while riding, the moments of bliss.
If I had one wish for Floyd it would be that he could revive his marriage, that I hope he ’sees’ as his greatest loss.
Comment by ridelots | 02.9.2011 | 10:25 pm
I agree with Fatty: Kimmage can not be considered as a journalist when covering professional cycling. He has an agenda and cannot be an impartial observer. Having said that, the interview was extremely compelling. It must be really frusturating when things don’t happen the way you think it should.
Comment by Boots | 02.9.2011 | 10:50 pm
Get well.
Reading the interview (yes, I did read it all in one sitting) I was struck by Floyd’s apparent inability to grasp the reality of humanity. Does he really believe that he could talk with his major backers and come away with their understanding of his decisions and the rational underlying them? That I doubt.
It is interesting to note that a person raised in a highly moral environment could shut all that out when making the decisions that he did – over and over again.
Interesting group of comments. I notice a sense of commitment that doesn’t often appear in your blog.
I’d say you were successful in getting us talking about some pretty serious matters. Congrats!
Comment by Scott | 02.10.2011 | 12:24 am
I read the entire transcript recently, and it seemed Landis’ main message was that, although he accepts fundamental responsibility for the decisions he made, he isn’t happy about how he got singled out when others were making (and continue to make) similar decisions. That sounds fair enough to me, although I’m speaking as someone who doesn’t ultimately know what went on.
Comment by Daren | 02.10.2011 | 12:43 am
Landis is the Jose Canseco of cycling. Both are unstable and probably stretch the truth and get some of the details wrong. However, the more we learn, the more the general substance of what both are saying is proven true. I can understand and actually admire your ability to continue to take Lance and others at their public statements. However, for me it requires suspension of disbelief at a level I just can’t reach.
I still follow pro racing but with a clear detachment. It’s just simple entertainment easily forgotten hours or days after the event is finished.
Fortunately, cycling as an activity remains engaging as ever. I still love to ride and race and my motivation hasn’t been destroyed by the likes of Lance, Tyler and Floyd. Getting lost in the backcounty with Grizzly, dropped by Rick and Kenny or nailing a sketchy line in a cross race are as rewarding as ever.
Comment by Dean | 02.10.2011 | 1:31 am
I read the whole thing too & I think you’re spot on with all you’re observations. Particularly #1 (FL is messed up big time) and the last one (Kimmage is no reporter – I’d call him a crusader with a personal vendetta).
I have to say I forced myself to get through just to figure out FL (Kimmage is no mystery). Other than realizing he’s messed up, I failed to ‘grok’ him. It was, however, the saddest (sports related) item I’ve ever read.
Get well soon.
Comment by parrabuddy | 02.10.2011 | 2:20 am
George 6.07 & lc 6.24 LAY OFF Fatty, OK ! He is a guy that has gone down a difficult road and been inspired by the work of a fellow cyclist !v He has chosen to help that foundation just as millions of others have .
Met both flandis and Lance several times at ALL the Pro cycling Events that i go to , and fluff is an unconscienable LIAR as he has stated but Lance does what he says and MEANS what he says.
UNTIL a Judge and Jury have been given Hard Evidence that causes them to seek a conviction , Lance is a member of the Human Race and entitled to fair play ! Too many behind anonymous names in “forums” apply their own rules , hit out at “Tall Poppies” because they failed in their little lives and are Jealous of “achievers” , to them i say “GET A LIFE” , provide facts not conjecture innuendo or rumour !
On a lighter note any Aussies will appreciate this item :
Comment by Al | 02.10.2011 | 3:08 am
Isn’t it sad that this has divided the community so much…?
Fatgirl: I guess what it says about fatty is that (as he says) he believes people to be innocent until proved otherwise and that he believes that people are good. Me, I hope to be the same.
It is getting harder to believe that Lance did it all without doping – not because of what people around him say and what people who want him to have doped say, but because so many others at the top of the sport have been caught doping and that if he did ride clean, then his achievement is even more extraordinary. But I still hope he didn’t dope, not because I’m stupid, or a lance apparatchik, but because I look to people at the top of their sport (or other endeavours) to inspire me and motivate me to do better in my own life. And because every once in a while, the world does throw out people who are extraordinary and inspiring. And because, even although I understand human frailty and that some people give in to it, I still believe that some don’t and that it is possible that extraordinary drive and talent and work can create extraordinary performance.
I hope that Lance did it clean. If I’m ever proved wrong, my world won’t fall apart and I’ll still believe in people. Stupid? Human? Not sure, but I know that I am fortunate to have a personality and outlook that allows me to believe the best in people. I am saddened by the hatred for Lance that pervades cycling forums and wouldn’t want to be someone who looks at success and always says “I don’t believe it.”
That’s why I read you every day fatty – you inspire me with your warmth, humour, energy and commitment.
Comment by bart | 02.10.2011 | 5:12 am
first : great post fatty !
how can we tell if someone is telling the truth of lying ? Floyd ? He told us he was lying. Lance ? I DON’T KNOW. But does that matter ? Innocent until proven guilty is still the starting point, isn’t it?
My problem with the whole Floyd-story is that he seems to believe he is now helping to cure the ’system’ he was a ‘victim’ of. I don’t buy that.
He is definately not selling this story as convicingly as he was selling his lie.
Comment by Durvish | 02.10.2011 | 7:09 am
So uhmmmm…… where’s the recipe for a really good Southwestern grilled shrimp marinade? That’s what I was looking for.
Comment by Cardiac Kid | 02.10.2011 | 7:09 am
I read parts of the interview and in my opinion Floyd is trash….plain in simple and my opinion isn’t open for debate.
This is a man that lied for years about cheating, collected money from people and wrote a book about the lie. And now that the money in that lie has run out he’s changed his mind, climbed up on his soap box and yelled “I cheated but know what? Everyone else did to….and that Lance guy…especially him…in fact he made me do it.”
Am I the only one that thinks this sounds like the ramblings of an 8 year old who doesnt want to get into anymore trouble?
Floyd Sucks….I can’t say it enough.
Fatty, keep up the great blogging and I hope you feel better soon.
Comment by ugh | 02.10.2011 | 7:20 am
Wow, absolutely no attribution for nyvelocity.com for posting the interview? You can’t even mention their name in your blog? They took considerable risk in posting that whole interview (risks that the Times wasn’t, for fun read both interviews, all the names mentioned in the nyvelocity interview magically disappear).
And if you look around there, you will see this:
http://nyvelocity.com/content/interviews/2009/michael-ashenden
That might be that hard evidence you’re looking for…
You’re right, NY Velocity deserves attribution. Thanks, and fixed.
As for the Ashenden piece you refer to, I’ve only had enough time to scan it, but I’d refer you to the first post-interview point Ashenden makes: “To put it simply – not testing positive does not establish that an athlete did not use banned substances.” Or in other words, the premise he’s working from is “guilty until proven innocent.” That’s simply not the way that I think, and not the way I’m going to live. I’m not going to treat any cyclist as guilty when no governing body feels there’s enough evidence to even indict. – FC
Comment by Fool | 02.10.2011 | 7:45 am
Re: the innocent ’til proven guilty defense. OJ Simpson was cleared of murder charges. Would you let your kids go to his house for a playdate with his kids? It’s possible for individuals to have an informed opinion of someone, even if the courts say otherwise. It’s way past time to pretend that one can’t have some serious doubts about Armstrong. Stop being so naive.
You’re right. From now on, everyone’s guilty of everything anyone suspects them of. – FC
Comment by Cyclin' Missy | 02.10.2011 | 8:49 am
Here here. We love riding despite some of the riders.
Feel better fast, Fatty!
Comment by Fool | 02.10.2011 | 9:06 am
I’ve deleted your comment. Moving the discussion from doping to a suggestion of violence against my children crosses the line. Do not comment on my site ever again. – FC
Comment by ugh | 02.10.2011 | 9:06 am
Well, if Floyd is to be believed, the UCI will never indict Lance. Seems like it’s going to take action from an outside source, like perhaps from the FDA…
Comment by daddystyle | 02.10.2011 | 9:35 am
I’m going for a bike ride, a pure simple bike ride so I can enjoy the rush of wind and endorphins.
Ride with kids, it will do your heart good.
Comment by MattC | 02.10.2011 | 9:58 am
@ Al at 3:08am, VERY NICELY put! I’m with you…we should go for a ride someday. (are you going to LIVESTRONG Davis by any chance?)
Comment by ugh | 02.10.2011 | 9:59 am
Wow, that’s a leap to delete that comment, you’re really afraid of OJ.
PS, there was no mention of violence against your children. The comment said that if you were so sue of people that aren’t indicted being innocent, then you would be fine with OJ babysitting.
His first comment — which I left up — said what you mentioned. His followup — which I deleted — was foul and did exactly what I said it did. I know he was kidding, and I don’t care. Just as I would not have tolerated that kind of comment in my home, I will not tolerate it here. – FC
Comment by TdF Lanterne Rouge | 02.10.2011 | 10:02 am
One observation: Transcribed spoken interviews of any one of us just talking off the cuff are not going to have as solid logic and arguments as written, carefully parsed statements.
Comment by MattC | 02.10.2011 | 10:03 am
Oh..and for the LIVESTRONG haters becasue it’s associated with LA, one of my riding buddies 18yr old son was diagonosed with Lymphoma 2 days ago (the technical name is ultra long and scary sounding). I have sent him links to the LIVESTRONG site…and hope he takes advantage of their services. I can’t possibly fathom how scary it must be for his family right this moment, and I pray he will get more support from them than I can offer.
I think that no matter WHAT plays out over the coming years w/ the doping, people need to keep in mind just what LS does and stands for, and who it helps, and keep that seperate from the man. Just my 2 cents worth on a sad day for me. I wish I could do more to help my friend is all I can think of right now.
Comment by Sara | 02.10.2011 | 10:14 am
Fatty, I’m with you and I’m perfectly happy to live in a naive world, if that’s what others think about my innocent-until-proven-guilty and believing-in-the-good-in-people attitude.
Al, at 3:08am, I couldn’t have said it better. Especially the part about the hatred. I don’t understand the hatred. It disgusts me. (sort of like the vitriol that continually flows from the mouths of the Repubs, but that’s a different topic…)
You know the one thing that has me worried about this whole thing is that if Floyd is actually telling the truth, then George was in the thick of it. “My” Georgie?! I can’t even consider it.
Comment by 3d brian | 02.10.2011 | 10:33 am
Well this discussion got a lot more heated than when I looked yesterday afternoon – now I have to comment.
I think Fatty’s pretty well on about Landis’ credibility. In a nutshell Floyd has told us that he has no morals and that his primary motives are ego and narcissism. He gets so offended that when he was told that he went too fast in a time trial that he leaves the team that gave him an opportunity and made him pro. He’s pretty much directly stated that he will do anything to save face. The whole, I doped a bunch but not what I got caught for is pretty clearly a big lie – he’s just trying to downplay it which in his twisted mind saves lots of face because then he didn’t directly lie to the people who donated lots of money to him.
So I don’t think you can give much credibility to Landis. He clearly is just saying whatever mix of truth and lies that he thinks will save the most face and make him look the best – he now thinks coming “clean” and blaming everyone is what will make him look best. What is truth and what it lies is very difficult to distinguish.
With that said, although I respect Fatty’s approach, personally I think it’s most likely that Armstrong doped. However Landis’ coming out does very little to prove or disprove that.
With that said, who cares? Armstrong like all of us is a composite of good and bad. He’s fantastically talented with cycling, but he’s still human. With all the fame and glory he’s probably a jerk in a lot of ways. Even still one of the fantastically good things he has done is establish and contribute to Livestrong. Of course there is a black and gray part to Lance. But there is also a white part and that is the part that is helping many many people battle cancer. To me Livestrong does not equal Lance. He just helps get it publicity.
I believe Livestrong fills a niche and gets contributions that no other foundation can. Whether or not Lance himself is overall a very good person, Livestrong is an awesome thing that does a lot of good and I appreciate the good part of Lance that made it happen. Livestrong does a unique good and inspires some people to contribute and be involved that wouldn’t be involved any other way. As do many other foundations.
Comment by Rich | 02.10.2011 | 11:27 am
Fatty, you said, “And I totally agree with you about the important thing being about riding and recruiting others to ride.
Thanks for keeping it calm and thoughtful!”
I just want to say thanks for providing an intelligent forum in which we can discuss these ideas. And thanks for reading and responding to our responses in such a generous way.
Your blog, even when I disagree with you, which really isn’t very often, makes my day go a little faster when I get 10 mins to check it, and makes me a little more stoked to throw my leg over the top tube when I get home.
Your blog is a blessing. Thanks for all the time and energy you put into it.
Comment by peterschueth | 02.10.2011 | 1:11 pm
I read this article some days ago, and, when finished, scratched my head and mentioned to my wife EXACTLY your five major points. My, how great minds think alike!
Further, I thought to myself that for those who care one way or the other (I do not, really), this article will just perpetuate the opportunity for vitriol, while providing no clarity whatsoever.
I, for one, want the authorities to get on with it so we all can get over it (and ourselves, occasionally), and get back to just enjoying the beautiful sport of cycling, at whatever level we each participate.
Comment by Owen | 02.10.2011 | 1:18 pm
Keep your chin up Fatty and keep fighting the good fight! At the end of the day that is all that matters.
Comment by Al | 02.10.2011 | 2:10 pm
@MattC at 9:58am
Well, sadly, I’m not doing LIVESTRONG Davis, but I was seriously tempted. However, I live in Edinburgh, Scotland and even although I was pretty interested in making LIVESTRONG Davis the focus for a summer trip this year, work has (annoyingly) intervened – I have to be in the UK on the Monday night…
One day, though, I hope Matt. Seriously.
Comment by bubbaseadog | 02.10.2011 | 2:11 pm
puts me in mind of frost nixon interviews …..nixon got paid did floyd also ill never forget the day floyd put on that never to be forgotten riding exibition at tdf it was something to see kinda like the great horse secritariat was he doped or did he just have a great heart. and who can forget what lance did when he rode to cover one of the shleck bros from about a mile away that helped contador win landis had always been the team player on lances teams lance retired floyd went after the glory…nuff said
Comment by NYCCarlos | 02.10.2011 | 4:59 pm
wow… soooooooooo many trolls.
Booked my flight to Davis, Fatty! Can’t wait!
Comment by Graham | 02.10.2011 | 5:05 pm
Mostly because I’ll feel left out of such an epic comments section, I’ve decided to add my two cents…
Would any athlete of any sport abuse themselves this way if people like us didn’t idolize them and pay them ridiculous sums of money?
We all raced bikes as kids, (and some of us race them still!) but never do we hear about kids playing games getting caught in doping scandals. It doesn’t happen because kids are just playing for fun. The grown-up kids also aren’t involved in drugs for the exact same reason.
Sympathize or hate the athletes who use drugs to gain an advantage, I don’t think we can escape the role we play in this sad scenario by applauding their efforts and helping fuel the frenzy for constantly improved performance.
I humbly suggest that instead we all ride bikes because it’s wicked fun and raise loads of money for cancer and tease each other about how weird people who don’t love bikes as much as we do can be.
Comment by mab | 02.10.2011 | 5:42 pm
Was this post needed?
We already know which side you’re on…
Just sayin’
A couple thoughts on this one.
1. None of my posts are “needed.” I write what I want to write, when it occurs to me to write it. Necessity has nothing to do with it.
2. My post has nothing to do with sides. It has to do with my take on a topical and intriguing story. The truth is, even if I were convinced every single cyclist in the world is a doper and should therefore immediately be immediately executed (Hi, Ugh and Fool!), the observations I make in this post would nevertheless be the same. The fact that you merely see this as a “taking sides” post means you have a pretty hardened POV yourself. I.e., you see things in a really simplistic way.
- FC
Comment by Dan O | 02.10.2011 | 6:41 pm
I also believed Floyd and if you’re a pro cycling fan, pretty hard not to doubt at least some of what he says now is true. Even without Floyd, what’s already been exposed and has gone down, is just ridiculous.
How much proof do we need? Doping is obviously rampant in cycling and other sports as well. The only question that remains is who does it and to what extent. That may never be answered.
In the meantime, I’ll watch the Tour and other pro races with a grain of salt. Pro cycling is only a tiny slice of the cycling pie – and the only aspect (for most of us) that involves watching other people ride. As we all know, the real deal is actually turning the pedals yourself – and that will never change – no matter what pro gets busted, or suspected, of what.
I read the entire interview in one sitting. To me, the beginning is the most interesting part of the talk. Floyd certainly had an interesting childhood, very different from most of us. The reason why he did all this? Of course not, but an interesting view on the man himself.
Along with a few zillion other bike crazed bloggers, I first posted my reaction on my own. If interested:
http://yoeddy.blogspot.com/2011/01/i-read-interesting-and-detailed.html
Comment by Drew | 02.10.2011 | 7:49 pm
Hey Fatty,
I know you’re stressed and under the weather but, sincerely, this was a pretty great article. Thanks.
Comment by ludo | 02.10.2011 | 10:20 pm
It seems the pot has been stirred. It would at this time be something for Oprah to handle. That said, Floyd some counseling is probably in order. Your upbringing has left you short in your ability to handle some of life’s challenges, on top of the loss of a good friend and your marriage. Kimmage has a vendeda for Lance and so there is bias in the interview. So where do we go from here. We all want to have someone to cheer for in our sport, and our natural tendency is to cheer for winners, and I think we start with Americans, as in us,you and I, simple people that ride for the joy of riding. If you chose to have hero’s, then lets make them the people, that guide our children, the teachers. There are others as well. Let’s go ride
Comment by JD | 02.10.2011 | 11:41 pm
Al | 02.10.2011 | 3:08 am
Wow – well said!! Ditto.
You’ve expressed my thoughts about the entire topic in your comment better than I could have put them into words.
My favorite being:
“That’s why I read you every day fatty – you inspire me with your warmth, humour, energy and commitment.”
Ditto again
Comment by skippi | 02.11.2011 | 1:03 am
Just read some of Fatty’s comments to others comments !
Fatty has been more than fair to let the likes of “race radio” jump in with a pov which was pounded into those visiting cnf and other forums where it contributes .
Ricco story has shown that athletes that abuse the system will suffer, there are some who dpo not survive and their autopsy discloses their shortcuts to fame and high income.
Can’t wait for Fatty’s next post on monday, withdrawal symptoms already setting in !
Just an item to add a lighter note to the debate
Hoping that the investigations ongoing thru flandis’s desire to enrich himself and kimmage’s revenge prove worthless,would like to add the image of a train wreck found in parrabuddy but unable ton add this image .
Comment by McBain_v1 | 02.11.2011 | 8:00 am
Fatty, I really feel for you. Right now my little ‘un is down with a vicious cough that made him puke last night, my wife is ill with the same bug, my dad has got something up with his lungs that has me ferrying him around for lung endoscopy exams all the time and my cousin is in a medically-induced coma because of a massive heart-attack brough on by DVT after a flight to Barbados. I just feel like pulling the covers over my head and flipping the finger to the world!
Comment by Erik | 02.11.2011 | 9:01 am
Fatty, feel better soon.
Everyone else, I suggest we all just go on a ride. I read the whole interview. Twice.
We all are human. We all have foibles.
Go on a ride. It does not matter whether we believed Floyd then, now, or never. What is done is done. What is really the concern for me relating to doping is to make sure that it doesn’t hurt the ones we love. (I’m sure, for example, that Ricardo Ricco’s mother still loves him.). If we all take the attitude of “do no harm” doping, and the vitriol related to discussions such as this, disappear.
The snow has melted. The temperature where I am will rise to a balmy 40 this weekend. I’m going to go for a ride this weekend. I hope everyone else can, too.
Comment by tim | 02.11.2011 | 9:17 am
I’m pretty much with you fatty – believe in peoples innocence. I read the whole thing – fascinating.
I think Floyd may be a bit delusional – his interpretations of what happened could be very different than the other riders he was interacting with. For example him and Pereiro riding along – FL sees OP’s arm where he had a needle mark – FL talks to him about it – OP thinks they are talking about a doping test – FL thinks they are talking about a transfusion. Many of the scenarios that FL talks about could be explained this way – FL looks at the world that everyone is doing it and talks openly about it but everyone else thinks they are talking about something else. This isn’t to say that OP’s needle mark wasn’t a transfusion mark – I don’t know – but I really doubt that they were riding along talking about transfusions in OP’s mind.
I also think that these discussions miss an important point – there are natural variations in people. Most of the doping is after one thing – increased hematocrit levels – transfusions, EPO, CERA etc are all to raise HTC levels. But some people have high levels naturally. Living at elevation can raise levels. Maybe there are riders that can compete at the top levels without doping? In the absence of doping there is still going to be a fastest cyclist – and all of the pro cyclists are way better than I will ever be – doped or not (either them or me). So what does this all mean – I don’t know – I know there are people who dope and ones who don’t – and maybe most of the top pros have – I don’t know – but I’d like to believe and hope there are less rather than more.
Comment by skippy | 02.11.2011 | 9:33 am
You are hearing it from me first, Cyclingnews is reporting that the Spanish are going to vindicate Contador !
For weeks we have waited for their one year ban which was leaked to the public to clear the way for their sympathy vote.
Now the Saga is going to go balistic once again and those wishing to see Contador in action at the Tour may have their wish granted
Andy & Frank would be delighted at the Op to show who are No 1;
Comment by MattC | 02.11.2011 | 11:17 am
@ Al at 2:10pm: Sorry to hear you can’t make it this year. When you do, I’ll be here and we will ride.
And hey…you’re from Edinburgh…how cool! Years ago I was working on USNS ships and we’d pull into the KGV docks @ Glasgow for refits. Never made it to Edinburgh though…only managed to get one day off, and I chose Sterling for my sightseeing day (which was AWESOME).
Been to West Yorkshire for 5 weeks 2 years ago (work) and was supposed to go back the next year for a month, so I built up a road bike specificly to bring w/ me (a Ritchey Breakaway…the frame comes apart to fit in a 26″ hard-case). Then they canx my trip, dang it. I still have the bike and I’m hopeful to get back. LOVE visiting the UK (your beer is freaking amazing, and you just can’t get Fish n chips like that anywhere else in the world…not to mention all the meat pies, n lamb chops…mmmm…now I’m hungry).
Fatty…hope by now everybody is better and life is returning to normal. Being sick sucks. Even worse: wasting a ’sick day’ actually being sick. That’s a travesty. Everybody knows sick days are for ridin’. Mental health days I call them. Stay warm!
Comment by MattC | 02.11.2011 | 11:32 am
@ Skippy, I’d love to see AC at this years Tour, battling it out w/ Team Schleck…but I don’t think it will happen. Even if the Spanish Fed goes w/ no ban, there’s no way the UCI/WADA will agree to that…they’ll appeal to the CAS for sure. And I don’t honestly see the CAS as being very impartial, and they have the power to change the ruling. I’m afraid he may come out w/ a full 2-year ban from them. But I’ve got my rose-colored glasses on and I’m hoping for his return this season. Hopefully they can play this out fairly soon (thou I’m also skeptical on that).
Comment by Al | 02.11.2011 | 1:27 pm
@MattC: Small World! I lived right opposite KGV docks, on the other side of the river for about 5 years. Used to cycle into town for work along the cycle path and wonder where the ships coming in for refit were from…
Now I know. Look forward to that ride one day.
Comment by VA Biker | 02.11.2011 | 2:27 pm
I read this interview for entertainment as much as anything else. Interesting stuff, certainly relieving of items that weren’t generally known to fans. Time will show us more.
Is pro. bike riding like WWE? No. Is it clean? No. Do I care that much or get too involved? Heck no. I have a family to take of. I will simply continue to ride my bikes for transportation and fun when I’m able and be very happy doing that.
Elden, thanks for continuing to author your blog. You’re a busy guy! Writing a blog and/or responding to comments shouldn’t be stressful; if it is, I wouldn’t blame you for walking away from it.
Comment by Baldcyclist | 02.11.2011 | 2:40 pm
If Landis is to be believed, and I actually think he is. Ok, he denied at first and then came clean (isn’t that what they all do when caught!), and yes he is definitely screwed up, but these allegations just will not go away, not just from Landis. There is a list as long as your arm of people providing evidence and pointing the finger, coupled with the fact that week after week we see another +ve result from someone or other.
The shameful truth is, that the sport I love is riddled with cheats and liars, and it pains me to say it, but aside from the year that Sastre won, I think you have to go back to 1990 and Lemond to find the last clean winner of the Tour de France.
Comment by Davo | 02.11.2011 | 3:33 pm
Spot on Fatty.
I had a very similar impression after reading the whole thing. Floyd’s sense of right and wrong didn’t seem consistent, which results in my not believing him. The second thing is according to Floyd EVERYONE is in on the deal. That is just too big of a conspiracy theory for me to accept. Finally, no other rider who has admitted doping (think Dave Millar) has said, “yep, that is how is was..” I’m not saying everyone is clean, but I can’t believe Floyd has given an accurate account.
Comment by LanceWilder | 02.11.2011 | 4:06 pm
I agree Fatty
What convinces me that Mr. Landis is deluding himself is that he believes in a conspiracy of grand proportion has occurred and that there are no other “whistle-blowers” willing to corroborate his story. I can guess there have and always will be cheaters in every sport, but that a majority of the time the “good guy” wins. I feel sorry for Mr. Landis and wish him peace, but hate the cloud of suspicion he has helped to formulate over cycling.
Comment by dpcowboy | 02.11.2011 | 6:28 pm
Just back and in from a ride and tuned in to the boiling cauldron on Fatty’s stove. Wow.
There is definitely a schism here with two sides forming, although the “…let’s go for a ride and forget about all this trash” faction seems to be gaining ground.
Personally, I find myself in the last group…I painted the house all morning, and then rode the damn hardest twenty mile ride ever (10 miles downhill with a tailwind, followed by ten miles uphill with a ’strong’ headwind). I needed some of that stuff the pros use, even yearned for it coming up that last hill, but you know what? I felt better after a few minutes of reflection and reading all these comments.
I think I’ll ride again tomorrow…there’s a reason I live in California.
Comment by Microchip | 02.11.2011 | 8:32 pm
Interesting post and comments (I’m a long-time reader, first time commenting here). :-) I always enjoy reading your blog Fatty.
I can’t see that one interview is – or should be – enough to convince a person definitively of someone’s guilt or innocence. This is in general, I’m not directing this to anyone in particular.
What is interesting is that other respected journalists (yes, Kimmage is a respected journalist) have indicated that Floyd is not alone in what he’s alleging. Juliet Macur of the New York Times has stated that others have corroborated Floyd’s accusations. The video in which she appears is here: http://nos.nl/video/210777-lance-armstrong-gebruikte-doping.html
Comment by bikesgonewild | 02.12.2011 | 4:41 pm
…“when ya ain’t got nothin’ – ya got nothin’ left to lose”…kristoferson wrote it, janis joplin sang it & i’d suggest floyd landis is feeling it…
…& i think he’s stripped it all down & is absolutely stone cold honest at this point in time…
…yes this collaboration plays into kimmages need to vindicate his own self & the stance he’s always held but i don’t think it in any way lessens landis’s finally coming clean…
…i used to hate kimmage because i felt he was just pissing on the sport side of the activity i’ve loved & been a part of for over 40 years but nowadays, there is corroboration from plenty of sources to verify so many of floyd’s accusations…
…& with so many young talented riders coming into the sport who have an attitude of doing this correctly & cleanly, i want to see them get the chance…
…i doubt (unfortunately) that the novitzky’s, kimmages & landis’s will blow the doors off the situation but if it leads to a cleaner sport of bicycle racing, i say let the chips fall where they may…
…& i’d love to see lance armstrong come clean but either way i’m still & will always be a fan…drugs don’t turn plow horses into thoroughbreds & any way you view it, 7 tour wins is phenomenal…
…lance helped popularize the sport…i think he now has a chance to actually help it but i doubt that day is coming any time soon…
…mores the shame…
Comment by Anonymous | 02.12.2011 | 8:17 pm
couple of points
credibility: granted floyd lost a lot of credibility with his antics over the years, so the claims he makes in the kimmage interview must be taken with a grain of salt. However, given that one of the claims is in fact true (treatment by UCI over salary guarantee), you have to wonder how many others are based on fact.
treatment by UCI: salary issue not withstanding, his treatment by the UCI is different than others. His positive dope test at the 2006 tour occurred within days, while they waited a full two months for Contador
repeat behaviour: his position that he would do it all the same and just admit it later is based on the treatment others have receive. Those who’ve tested positive and came clean are much more likely to be welcomed back (millar, vino, ricco) than those who claimed otherwise (landis, hamilton, etc).
Comment by Anonymous | 02.12.2011 | 11:40 pm
Comment by “Fool” 2/10, 7:45)
Re: the innocent ’til proven guilty defense. OJ Simpson was cleared of murder charges. Would you let your kids go to his house for a playdate with his kids? It’s possible for individuals to have an informed opinion of someone, even if the courts say otherwise. It’s way past time to pretend that one can’t have some serious doubts about Armstrong. Stop being so naive.
You’re right. From now on, everyone’s guilty of everything anyone suspects them of. – FC
Just to advise you, Fatty, that while being found “not guilty” = “innocent” in the eyes of the law, it isn’t necessarily the same thing in the real world.
-”BB”-
Comment by Squirrelhead | 02.13.2011 | 9:19 am
Fatty,
Keep focused on who you are and what you do. You have helped a lot of people raising all the money that you have. People lose focus way too easily these days and want to knock something down to make themselves feel better. Please remember that what you are doing is important and helps people struggling with cancer. I will be in Davis CA for the LIVESTRONG event and I cannot wait! Feel better soon and hold strong.
Comment by jason | 02.13.2011 | 10:17 am
FC
It’s great to see you with a strong POV on a relevant and timely issue that goes beyond the funny and whimsical posts we have come to love. While many have disagreed with your posts, I think this is great as it opens up the dialogue and engenders more conversation.
With the prospect of Contador being banned and not riding the TDF this year, I was really looking forward to seeing Ricardo Ricco challenge some of the GC contenders (Schlecks, Basso, Evans, etc.) It shocking to see the recent development of his self-inflicted doping efforts. Sure Ricco’s a “special” one, but the fact that he would come out of suspension and return to doping so quickly underlines the pressure cyclists feel to perform. Until there’s a zero tolerance policy (lifetime ban) we will continue to see riders trying to fool the system.
In many ways I’ve been turned off to the pro peleton. I looked at Tyler Hamilton as a hero in the sport and his effort in 2003 will forever be something I admire. On the downside the fact that he wasn’t clean crushed my image of him (although I will always be sentimental to his dog tugboat). As in life, I can only admire those who try their best with what they have and if they fail it’s better than winning as a cheat.
Hope all is well in “happy valley”…oh how I miss Utah.
J
Comment by Richard | 02.13.2011 | 11:26 pm
Great piece Fatty.
I have to say I do not understand those who come to Flandis’ defence. The guy didn’t just utter a small insignificant lie. As Fatty so eloquently points out above – he lived a great big stinking lie and when caught out kept on lying and when he finally admitted to being a liar he still keeps on lying.
I am a huge fan of Lance but understand why many suspect him of doping. That said, I don’t understand the attacks on Livestrong which has done so much good.
Fatty – you are on my bucket list. One day we are going to catch up and have a few beers and maybe a nice dinner with our better halves – don’t know when as it is a long way between Colorado and Western Australia but hopefully it will happen. If things worked out really well we could have a ride together.
Hope you and the family are on the mend.
Comment by Cannonball | 02.15.2011 | 8:48 pm
Vitriol or the truth with a little piss ‘n vinegar thrown in… Here’s the latest on Lyin’ Landis:
NYVelocity: McQuaid and Verbruggen put Landis on notice
NYVelocity reports that Floyd Landis has received a letter from a lawyer representing UCI president Pat McQuaid and former president Hein Verbruggen, telling the retired racer to retract statements he’s made against them within 15 days. If he doesn’t, the letter says, the pair will file suit in a Swiss court “to defend their honor.” In an interview with a German TV station, and elsewhere, Landis has charged the UCI covered up positive doping tests from favored riders.
Comment by Kelly | 02.18.2011 | 1:52 pm
Thoughtful, excellent post. :)